Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

@Hideandgo I'm glad there are others who see trans girls as girls and not as boys in disguise trying to impregnate our daughters.

I didn’t say that any kind of underage sex was OK, wittyname, only that girls cannot impregnate girls.

Anything else is entirely your own inference.

There is a reason sex segregated places exist, and a good one.
There's also a reason you are allowed to ask for a male or female nurse or doctor.
It's not about thinking the other sex is a criminal, it's about being able to feel comfortable in specific situations.

I don’t need you to explain it. I understand just fine.

Then please could you explain it to me.

I'm still at a loss as to how it doesn't breach safeguarding rules.

Or how the rights of boys who believe they are girls are more important than allowing a girl only space. Which is what girl guiding has always been, and everyone who has joined up until the point believes they have signed up for.

I think life must be bloody hard for people with gender disphoria, I think it's a struggle and things need to change.

But that change shouldn't include taking away the right for someone to refuse to be around someone who makes them uncomfortable is what is happening.

When things are done properly everyone should keep their basic rights.

Hideandgo, can you not see that this policy opens the door to ANY predatory male, who simply has to pretend to be trans?
Even if you could prove that all trans people were safe to be with girls - unlikely, given that 40% of transgender prisoners are in there for sex offences, including rape - you still don’t explain how GG will stop teenage boys from self IDing as trans for the sole purpose of getting into girls showers and tents.
If GG tried to question their motivation, they’d be accused of transphobic hate crime. Now do you see why it’s a problem?
Or are you going to claim that teenage males never attack teenage girls?

Of course Hide and Witty can see it. That's not why they are here posting on this thread.

It's not about thinking the other sex is a criminal, it's about being able to feel comfortable in specific situations.

Witty and hide ^This a million times. You clearly don't care about the feelings of girls.

I'm glad there are others who see trans girls as girls and not as boys in disguise trying to impregnate our daughters

I work with trans kids. Trans girls are not girls and trans boys are not boys and it is not helpful for anyone to suggest they are. it is think thinking that denies kids access to the support they need.

The vast majority of children I work with (well over 90%) end up feeling comfortable with their natal sex. Those that don't need support managing their dysphoria. No therapist or medic worth their salt would suggest disassociation as a healthy way forward. Whilst you may be well intentioned in saying people should see trans girls as girls etc. but I think this is problematic not only for natal girls but also to the trans kids trying to cope with very difficult circumstances.

@Hideandgo and @Wittyname4

Where have I said that transgirls are trying to impregnate girls? Teens don't generally try, or want, to impregnate each other, but it happens.
The focus here is on the conflict between safeguarding and the inclusion policy in an organisation that assumes a single-sex environment in which teenage pregnancy has not hitherto been a risk factor to consider.

I'm glad there are others who see trans girls as girls and not as boys in disguise trying to impregnate our daughters.

No one is ascribing evil intent! Just a dose of reality - trans girls are male-bodied teens, they are going through puberty same as everyone else for the most part, because delaying onset of puberty and other treatments is not mainstream in under-18s, so it’s illogical to say they are “girls” and ignore physical reality.

I actually don’t think many trans girls in Guides want to be anything but accepted, and if GG went about this more transparently then we could have a useful discussion about safeguarding.

But repeating that trans girls are girls same as everyone else and parental consent is not important in changing from single sex policies, and if you raise concerns you must be silenced and shut down is not that.

They’ve behaved badly.

Trans teens are hormone soup like all teens. Parents think girl Guiding is single sex. It’s not.

Hideandgo- are you comfortable with the fact that most Muslim girls will now not be allowed to join Guides?

BBC News Front Page.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45642054
Girlguiding says girls not at risk from trans inclusion

If guides think this is going to go away, I think they are in for a shock. Their email to the membership will alert a lot of people who were not aware.

This is spiralling... and getting bigger.

I actually don’t think many trans girls in Guides want to be anything but accepted, and if GG went about this more transparently then we could have a useful discussion about safeguarding

Absolutely

And it worries me that they are managing transboys out of the organisation

All three of my children were beavers and cubs, one did a year of scouts and a few years of explorers. Seperate tents for cubs and scouts though i think explorers shared...if everyone was happy to do so

Obviously based on sex...

We are Of the Sikh religion and this will stop a lot of Sikh and Muslim girls joining. My daughter being one of them.

Not actively wanting to get your sexual partner pregnant doesn't actually prevent conception from occurring.

We are Of the Sikh religion and this will stop a lot of Sikh and Muslim girls joining. My daughter being one of them.

It's such a shame girls are being deprived of the opportunity to join, but who cares right, so long as trans girls are able to join. A minority preventing a larger majority from accessing what should be a supportive and empowering group, which benefits young girls and gives them a voice.

There’s a thread on AMA from a trans man (18 year old) in which they explain they’re in a gay relationship with another trans man.

So both born female, both now identify as men, both are attracted to men so are gay. They don’t have a ‘genital preference’ however so when having sex it operates a lot in the mechanics like a traditional lesbian sexual experience, it sounds like.

It’s not just gender that is fluid now but definitions of sexual attraction etc. It’s confusing - anyone can be anything, identify as anything and have sex with anyone and call it what they like.

I honestly, hand in heart, do not think it is inconceivable that two trans girls in a relationship might have PIV sex and the natal girl might get pregnant as part of a ‘lesbian’ sex use encounter.

Not all trans teens are experiencing dysphoria to the extent that they wouldn’t consider ‘traditonal’ PIV sex but just call it something different.

There’s so much misinformation for teens about sexual anyway - can’t get pregnant if he pulls out etc - that it will be ignorance not malice that makes this become a scandal for girls, whether trans or natal.

I honestly, hand in heart, do not think it is inconceivable that two trans girls in a relationship might have PIV sex and the natal girl might get pregnant as part of a ‘lesbian’ sex use encounter.

Plus males can impregnate with out PIV sex...shifty little fuckers those sperm

Just a thought, which may have already been answered: is this not actually a problem within Scouts as well?

If I send my girl to Scouts I am doing so in the knowledge that there will be children of the opposite sex there. But in terms of showering, changing, sleeping, am I still to assume that these things will be sex segregated?

If a trans girl is in the Scouts, will they be in with the boys or the girls? Is there a policy on this?

Sorry, this should say:
I honestly, hand on heart, do not think it is inconceivable that two trans girls in a relationship, one trans, one natal, might have PIV sex and the natal girl might get pregnant as part of a ‘lesbian’ sexual encounter.

I really hope no trans kids read this; seeing the hatred, accusations and suspicion by adults against children is awful.

I applaud Girl Guiding for moving with the times and the Girl Guides themselves for overwhelmingly voting that they don't think trans gendered kids should be discriminated against. Our kids are thankfully a lot more tolerant than we are which makes me positive for the future.

I'm sure there will be appropriate safeguarding in place so no one will be forced to shower naked with anyone or share a tent on their own with anyone they feel uncomfortable with. I'm sure this is already in place and will continue to be.

If you want to absolutely ensure all kids are looked after and their welfare catered for then become a leader or parent helper and go to meetings and on camp with them. Every youth group needs more people to help out and you will get a huge amount out of it too, I know I do.

And actually if i were the mother of a transgirl i would hate it, quite obviously, if they impregnated their female friend...however she identified

Our kids are thankfully a lot more tolerant than we are which makes me positive for the future.

What if your daughter told you she was uncomfortable with changing around a trans girl because they had a male body?

I'm sure there will be appropriate safeguarding in place so no one will be forced to shower naked with anyone or share a tent on their own with anyone they feel uncomfortable with. I'm sure this is already in place and will continue to be.

Well no, you are not 'sure', no one is, because discussion around these issues is being shut down by people like you.
It needs to be discussed, and these issues need to be raised.