What's with all the transgender hate?

[Tiggy82]

I'm new to this and have been looking at the feminism chat and there seems to be so much hate and fear about transgender people! What's that about? And apparently you can't be a feminist and be accepting of transgender people, that just seems ludicrous to me, surely feminism is about equality, I am not pretending to be particularly knowledgeable on the trans subject, but i do think having equality for transgender people is nothing but a positive thing. Has anyone actually been personally negatively affected by a transgender person? Or is it all a theoretical fear?

Onemorefortheroad the other reason there are so many trans related threads on here is that there are very, very few spaces where women can discuss this at all. The thought policing in academia, in public sector arenas, in cyber space at large is very disturbing; dissent from the “acceptable” line that TWAW is not even tolerated in many spaces.

Many women are deeply shocked by this. The trans issue has shown us the real depth of misogyny in our society, a depth many of us didn’t realise existed till now. This issue goes to the very roots of feminism: the relative difference in worth of males and females in the world we live in. The difference in worth of our voices, our feelings, our bodies, our boundaries, our experiences, our testimony[sic], our hysteria[sic].

What we are fighting here is the absolutely ingrained inferiority of the female sex class relative to the male sex class, an inferiority that goes back thousands of years and is embedded in all cultures worldwide.

The trans issue seems to highlight more than any other just how current that inferiority is, despite the illusion that a few decades of modern feminism have brought about radical and abiding change.

The way women are being silenced over this; ostracised, humiliated, pilloried, branded as bigots for simply standing up for our rights; deprived of our rights to single sex facilities, services and sports; condemned and vilified by other women and those who purport to advocate for the vulnerable; actually assaulted, and put in harm’s way - and consistently told to STFU about it when we try to raise concerns - this is age-old misogyny in action, at its finest, laid bare.

This THE central issue for feminism right now because if we lose this one, then women are indeed condemned to second class status in society, in law, by a sort of collective unconscious agreement that no, female people don’t really matter in the same way male people do. I’m not going along with that.

And as I said, this is one of the few spaces where women who aren’t going along with that can actually speak. Up to a point.

So speak we do. And three cheers for that.

Because the TRAs in twitter lie about us, come on here and make deliberately provocative posts and post screemshots out of context SpoonBender HTH

Panda -

I got my medication and life back on track, the rugby tacking patient in my story is now my DH, I've been stable four years and have a little boy

What a wonderful next chapter. I'm so happy for you.

Tiggy82

I am not pretending to be particularly knowledgeable on the trans subject

I believe trans women are women

🤔

Heads up campers. This thread has been allowed onto 'active' by MN.

Has it Clarice? How very, very interesting. Oversight, or intern, do we think?

I got deleted!! My first deletion
But why?
I'm pretty sure I just objected to the use of "non trans women" and "cis" and put forward the suggestion that use of these terms is fairly suggested of ill informed trolling...

Interesting

*suggestive

onemorefortheroad

Many of the women talking here, irl campaign on other feminist issues and support women and girls in many different ways.

This board has a preponderance of 'trans' threads for two reasons:

1. Many of us believe that current trans ideology and activism is a Trojan horse that is being used (perhaps subconsciously) to dismantle women's hard and recently won rights.

1. This is one of the only public sites (thank you @mnhq*) that is allowing this discussion to take place. Elsewhere, WOMEN ARE BEING SILENCED.

Crackpots I do need to do something more your right. I know there is/possibly was a thread about writing to your MP.

It's tricky trying not to sound aggressive/angry when one is angry. I do want to raise more awareness about the mental health side of things.

Just looked on the hospital website out of curiosity and it hasn't changed, my ward and one other are both still listed mixed sex with different corridors. There is no specific trans policy. I'm happy for my story to be shared, it's on my medical notes off when my lovely GP got the enviable task of sorting my medication out and weaning me off sleeping pills so verifiable.

And just to add, I am sick to my stomach that my valuable time and energy is being spent on defending women's rights that I thought had been established decades ago.

Every second that I spend on this topic is stolen time from my professional work (also supporting women and girls) and my family.

I cannot wait for the day that fwr can concentrate on other topics; I hope against hope that this won't be because the roll back of women's rights has gone so far that we have been completely silenced.

An obvious reason there are so many thread on the subject here is that we can get together elsewhere, online or in the flesh, to discuss issues such as domestic violence without risk to our jobs.

We can hold meetings in public buildings about maternity pay without being subjected to bomb threats and intimidation.

We can even march through a city centre protesting about Universal Credit without fear of actual violence.

Panda

God, I know I don't know if I've struck the right tone with my MP, but I need her to know how angry I am.

I don't mean to put pressure on you. I've had spurts of time when I've stuck stickers everywhere, and other times when I get scared because I work in the public sector. You being on here and sharing your story is something

No hate from me, just an understanding that women’s rights and trans rights are not the same and the current conflation does us all a disservice.

You know, @Tiggy82 I'm a gender-critical feminist (and a 2nd waver). I don't hate transgender people. I try to have some empathy for people so affected by a bodily dysphoria that they feel their perfect bodies are "wrong" (just as one's heart is torn by young girls suffering from anorexia - another bodily dysphoria - who think their perfect bodies are too fat/big/take up too much space).

But you know - as a feminist, I'm concerned with women's lives, and the ways in which our historical circumstances play out on the present. I'm actually not that interested in men who "feel" they're women. I think those with gender dysphoria should have appropriate treatment: therapy to investigate why they can't live with being a "feminine man" or become empowered to shrug off & reject gender stereotypes altogether - as we feminists work hard to do (often at the cost of easy lives).

But I am concerned with the attacks on the fundamental definition of what it is to be a woman. I am concerned with, yet again, men telling women who women are and how they should behave. Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

Apparently, that makes me transphobic - for not putting men-who-want-to-be-women - at the centre of my concerns.

After all, what's 2 women a week murdered by domestic partners or ex-partners? What's a sex-based pay gap? What is the lifelong dealing with harassment & oppression of women as individuals and a category or class, compared wit the 0.1% of the population who can't cope with being feminine men?

Because trans women are seen to bring to the table all the negative traits that men do - the violence, the domination, the subjugation that makes women's lives a misery.

I have a question. Is our society now seen as a 3 tier hierarchy? Men at the top, women at the bottom and trans women sandwiched in between? Or are men and trans women indistinguishable when it comes to privilege and status?

Panda
I’m really so pleased you have been able to move on with your life, recover your health and have a family.
You should never have been in that position. The NHS recognised some years ago that mixed sex wards needed to go for patients with physical health problems and should have done the same with mental health wards. As a junior doctor I used to play hunt-the-patient when one or more of my patients would vanish from a ward overnight to turn up on a different one later the following day in order to create spaces to cater for the male or female patients who were waiting to be admitted. There were some serious discussions of how best to care for transman who had undergone a hysterectomy and suffered complications requiring them to be admitted under the gynaecology team. Gynae patients were usually kept on one ward all together as much as possible but in this case it was felt that it was inappropriate to have a person with chest hair and beard who had a male name on a ward full of women, both for the dignity of the patient admitted and the other patients on the ward.
Allowing men to self identify as women and be admitted to a female ward is a retrograde step that harms not only the safety but fundamentally the dignity and comfort of women.

Sorry op but reapeating your original statement when asked for specific examples does not help me understand your position.

Perhaps you are mistaking fear of men for transphobia?

Most women see most transwomen as men. I personally can not tell the difference between a man in unconventional dress ( especially those of us who grew up in the 70's and 80's) , a man pretending to be a transwomen and an actual transwomen. The physical size, they facial structure, they way they smell, walk and talk all all signals that we are looking at a male. And I think most women would also be able to sense the sexual preference of these people.

SO if we assume the someone thinks themselves a man and we call them women, we are being rude. If the someone thinks themselves a woman and we call them a man, we ar being rude. HOW DO WE KNOW?

Women tend to fear men in some situations. This is because many men commit violence and even more disrespect women. If we remember that 20% of women experiance sexual abuse, we can state that up to 20% of men are sexual abusers.

We also know that transwomen do not abuse at a lower rate then men. We also know that men pretending to be transwomen are likely to abuse at a much higher rate than men in general.

Thus, from a female perspective there is no benefit form trying to distinguish between men, men in unconventional deed, men pretending to be women and men who think they are women. We are at high risk from all of them.

Therefore I repeat my assertion that you are not seeing transphobia, you are seeing fear of men. ( misandery ?)

Misandry is a hatred of men, Midgebabe - fear of men would be androphobia.
Where’s the OP gone again? The trans debate is one of the biggest threatening women and girls for a long time. Who would have thought that even before we got equal pay, equal representation in business and Parliament, or sensible and realistic conviction rates for domestic violence and rape, we would have to start defending our sex-segregated spaces from men and boys? It’s another way to erase us; admittedly a bit more ingenious than previously, I give them that. Not having managed to hide us away at home or kill us, they’re now having a go at pretending to be us. Have to hand it to ‘em, they’re persistent fuckers ain’t they.

Thanks for the word.

OP - For being new to the subject with a lot to learn you impressively familliar with a lot of the lingo.

TWAW, cis, non trans etc. Excellent

7 pages when OP is clearly trolling...

Hate?

I don't hate trans people. I do pity. I pity the young trans boy struggling in the heat because their binder is too tight, because the ideology has told them this is a step to being boy.

I pity that trans boy who won't use either sex of toilets because activists have told them they are risk in the women's, because actually they're a boy, but they daren't use the men's.

I pity every child who finds attention from adult zealots, who push a narrative to validate themselves. I pity every child who's autistic traits are ignored, who's underlying mental health issues are ignored, who's trauma or abuse is ignored because it's simpler and easier to say "you're in the wrong body". I pity them.

I pity the trans women who think that womanhood is just shoes and clothes, because they'll never understand it's so much more than stereotypes.

I pity the trans men who've mutilated their breasts and skin to reach manhood, because they are so desperately unhappy. Is that really where happiness lies?

I hate the trans activists.

You don't get to build a brave new world based on stereotypes we've spent years trying to overcome.

You don't get to control the narrative without question and debate.

Your emotional blackmail and bullying can only go so far. You put sexual predators in women's jails. You allowed paedophiles to change sex, and access woman and children. You allowed people who think it's acceptable to wank at work to influence policy!

You assert your statistics without ever looking at the alternatives. If 60-80% of "trans" children grow out of their Gender disphoria then how dare you push for their puberty to be blocked? How dare you throw those kids under a bus?

You suppress scientific research because it challenges your narrative.

You chat shit about lady brains. If it's true GREAT. Let's decide all this with brain scans. I'm up for that. Lol.

You userp the fight of intersex people. You argue against two biological sexes on the grounds of some people having medical conditions. You don't care about what intersex people are actually saying or feeling.

You attack women with PCOS. It doesn't matter to you to belittle their struggles as biological women if it suits your ideology.

You attack women, threaten them, dox them instead of being brave enough to stand up to the actual sex that physically attacks trans people.

And most fundamentally of all you are trying to change the very definition of woman and of man. You might succeed for a while with the online bullshit woke folk but guess what? Everyone really knows what a woman is. We all came out of one

We see you.

I know they are trolling but I just needed to say it