This is wrong right?

[DukeOfSussex]

If your teenage daughter had her first week at the University of Sussex this week this is what found in her welcome bag.

A Pot Noodle, A tablet of washing detergent, a sim card and an individual sized portion of instant coffee.

AND

A picture of a woman designed to look like she has spunk dripping down her face to sell toothbrushes. "whether you spit or swallow during your twice daily oral regime..."

She'll also find a drinks night event by the Student union being advertised all over campus. It has a picture of a dead eyed half naked woman laying in an empty bath...which advertises what? Fuck knows.

She will also find a copy of the student newspaper in her bag. On the front cover at the very top of the page is an article entitled "Transphobia and toilets". This is discussing the recent words of University of Sussex philosophy professor Kathleen Stock who dared to very (politely) question some aspects of trans theory.

Your daughter, if disabled, will also be concerned to see that some of the disabled toilets have been declared "for all genders". Which is lovely and inclusive but not ideal if you're disabled and need a wee and need to wait for an able bodied non binary male wearing lipstick to go for a shit first.

She will find that the "This Sussex Girl Can" all women only classes are open to all "women, trans gender people and non binary individuals" so just mixed classes basically .

So far so expected of university in general but what upsets me is that people wanted Kathleen Stock's job for having an opinion. She caused students to feel "unsafe" with her very words, but in a world where women are literally unsafe and sexual assault is endemic in universities, Sussex student union didn't think twice before objectifying its female students. If your employer gave you a goody bag with this card in it you could rightfully be making a formal complaint to your HR department. Why is it appropriate for university?

We can't discuss why it's always a woman advertising drinks, or toothbrushes without discussing women and the group of people who actually deal with the real repercussions of being women. It's a bloody joke.Why don't people care about actual sexism, real life objectification of women.

Do they issue degrees in Flailing Outrage

God i hope so...

Next time, think about how your words have impact.

This reminds me of my toddler trying to tell me off for not making the moon come out in the daytime or whatever. Earnest yet clueless.

Your problem was that the University/Students' Union has a definition of a woman that isn't "person with vagina". Because, as I said, it is 2018 and science has moved on from such binary ideas of gender (yes, science. look it up).

Can you explain in a nutshell how you think babies are made please? I'm pretty sure the way they have made hasn't changed because it's now 2018, but I could be wrong.

I don't have 'binary' ideas of gender. I have no ideas about gender because gender is a load of old bollocks put onto girls and boys from birth to keep them in their place. And is reinforced by trans activism.

feminist

And when my 12 year old boy told me i was being sexist

"Moved on from" is an interesting way to say "I failed that course".

Degrees in rudness would be more apt

No need to be so rude

Note to self: check university dictionaries and see if they have a completely different definition of the words ‘oppression’ and ‘misogyny’ to the stand issue ones the rest of us are using.

Oppression and social exclusion are not interchangeable terms.

Only people with gynaecological systems (working or not) can be subjected to misogyny.

Of course transpeople deserve to live with dignity and be fully participant in society - but that won’t be achieved by lumping completely different issues into one (hand)bag or coopting words in a manner that renders them meaningless.

Every building across campus has standard toilets, split by sex, with multiple cubicles. Every building also has purpose built individual toilets, which are full accessible and gender neutral. This is to ensure that all students are able to go to the toilet whenever they need. This is not a co-opting of disabled toilets, as these have been purpose built. There are plenty of them, and I have never seen a queue of more than one person for one (in the newer buildings, there are groups of 5 or 6 of these individual toilets, and so there's always space). This has not only ensured that trans and non-binary students feel safe going to the toilet, knowing that they won't face abuse for "being in the wrong toilet", but has actually also led to more accessible toilets being built, so has been beneficial for disabled students.

It's irrelevent whether you ever saw queues. If I had any degree of incontinence and found a 'non-binary' person in a disabled loo ahead of me I would be extremely pissed off. My friend has a stoma which every so often misfires and leaks faeces all over her clothes. Should she have to stand outside waiting while someone who doesn't need to use that loo occupies it? I don't buy that trans people are at greater risk of assault and if the loos were all being purpose built why not just build separate unisex loos which don't then impact disabled people

Because even if there are more than enough loos, you are engendering a cultural shift whereby disabled loos are suddenly open to anyone. A trans woman who has spent 3 years at your university using the disabled loo is then going to use one elsewhere, because they suddenly feel entitled to. Disabled people had to campaign long and hard to have the facilities they do and if they are suddenly frequently in use, it will have an impact on how much certain individuals feel comfortable ever leaving the house.

Rufus How did you handle that one?

God your poor parents have wasted a lot of money on what seems like a very weak education :(

Because, as I said, it is 2018 and science has moved on from such binary ideas of gender (yes, science. look it up).

Now we’re talking! Okidoki, let’s talk science. Please?

But first are we talking sex or gender? I’m talking sex.

My position is that sex is Male or female and that humans can’t change sex. If I’m wrong, then I beg you to explain in your own words how.

(No YouTube videos or links to that sodding nature OPED. You explain in your own words if you please. With the science and all.)

"gender non-conforming people are the ones at danger"

Like feminists and lesbians you mean? Non compliance / resistance against male supremacy and female homosexuality are by absoute definition outside of feminine gender role.

lol

"reinforced the dangerous stereotype that trans women are not women"

Please define "woman" in a non circular way.

Thanks

feminist

i was sat with my hand behind my head, sleeveless top and hadnt shaved my pits

Ds2 said ' you need to shave mummy'

And i thought 'excellent...a feminism/ sexism lesson opportunity here'

And i said 'well daddy doesnt shave'

Ds2: well i think he should

Me: men don't have to shave.....

And before i could even finish my sentence he said

'Well, i think you are being a bit sexist there mummy'

Epic backfire

They might get a junior job in the Equalities Office of a local authority. Or, and I know this happens, a tick box diversity job in a vast corporation.

Haha. I proper love the sound of your kid, Rufus.

"I have friends in her classes/on her course that feel unsafe"

Did they think she was going to attack them?

Like that transwoman prisoner who was convicted of rape, housed in teh women's prison, and sexually assaulted 4 fellow inmates?

That sort of unsafe feeling, you mean?

I like your boy rufus
'daddy doesn't shave'. 'well I think he should'

I'm very glad your mixed sex sports taster thingys are successful

Genuinely

That's great

Don't say they're for women though - be honest about who they are for. They are open to anyone who wants to come, and that is fine.

As a member of a family dealing with complex disability and all the access nightmares that go with that on a daily wheelchair using basis I would like to thank the trans community for benefiting us by building more accessible toilets - oh wait a minute...

betty

Oh he is one of a kind

Very quick witted and has quite the way with words...very dry sense of humour....and a very pretty boy, not that I'm biased

She peddled the same myth that is peddled by the far right, that trans inclusivity will lead to "men dressed as women attacking women in the toilets". If you do some of your own research, you will realise how ridiculous this premise is.

I just had a read over your post.

You are going to look back at posting this one day and cringe. Really, I'm so embarrassed for you. This little corner of Mumsnet is home to academics, lawyers, doctors, scientists, journalists, politicians ...the list goes on and on. The posts here amount to hours and hours and hours of considered research, discussion and analysis of the trans debate and Mumsnet is generally very left-wing.

You are a sneeze away from having graduated and yet you've come here to put us on the right path?

Just no.

Thanks charlie

Rufus that sounds good! He knew the word and knew how to apply it, roughly, you’ve done a grand job to get that far with him! He’s still only wee too

"This can be lending an ear, getting a taxi, helping someone find their friends, minor first aid, and a whole host of other things, which are aimed at especially making women safer on nights out. "

Presumably transwomen take precendence over "cis" women when it comes to all thes things?
The cis women I expect are mainly the ones providing the service for the more oppressed women amongst them?
And then when the night is done they can walk home by themselves, safe in the knowledge that they are at very low risk due to cis privilege.