This is wrong right?

[DukeOfSussex]

If your teenage daughter had her first week at the University of Sussex this week this is what found in her welcome bag.

A Pot Noodle, A tablet of washing detergent, a sim card and an individual sized portion of instant coffee.

AND

A picture of a woman designed to look like she has spunk dripping down her face to sell toothbrushes. "whether you spit or swallow during your twice daily oral regime..."

She'll also find a drinks night event by the Student union being advertised all over campus. It has a picture of a dead eyed half naked woman laying in an empty bath...which advertises what? Fuck knows.

She will also find a copy of the student newspaper in her bag. On the front cover at the very top of the page is an article entitled "Transphobia and toilets". This is discussing the recent words of University of Sussex philosophy professor Kathleen Stock who dared to very (politely) question some aspects of trans theory.

Your daughter, if disabled, will also be concerned to see that some of the disabled toilets have been declared "for all genders". Which is lovely and inclusive but not ideal if you're disabled and need a wee and need to wait for an able bodied non binary male wearing lipstick to go for a shit first.

She will find that the "This Sussex Girl Can" all women only classes are open to all "women, trans gender people and non binary individuals" so just mixed classes basically .

So far so expected of university in general but what upsets me is that people wanted Kathleen Stock's job for having an opinion. She caused students to feel "unsafe" with her very words, but in a world where women are literally unsafe and sexual assault is endemic in universities, Sussex student union didn't think twice before objectifying its female students. If your employer gave you a goody bag with this card in it you could rightfully be making a formal complaint to your HR department. Why is it appropriate for university?

We can't discuss why it's always a woman advertising drinks, or toothbrushes without discussing women and the group of people who actually deal with the real repercussions of being women. It's a bloody joke.Why don't people care about actual sexism, real life objectification of women.

And certainly not as disappointed as they're going to be when women start cancelling their accounts...

I can't believe they are still going with the "but we just don't want everyone's teeth to fall out!" line of defence.

Also blow jobs + primary age schoolgirls is NOR A GOOD MIX. Seriously @brushboxUK, family values + imagery around women with spunk all over their faces are NOT super-compatible. For a start you aren't going to get any family if the spunk always goes on the face... But I hear biology is out of fashion these days so maybe people don't know that any more...

I'm going to blow your minds, ad guys..it's possible to encourage people to brush their teeth without suggesting that they suck cock twice daily.

It's OK if you need to sit down for a bit, let it sink in and all. Next we'll talk through the issue of who makes most household purchases.

we are sorry if this has in any way made you feel this way

This isnt an apology. It says ‘oh sorry if you have an issue with it’ which again displaces the actual problem into the person who is complaining. Typical weasel non apology type.

I’m sorry if you felt it was inappropriate is not an apology
it was inappropriate, and we are sorry is an apology.

Hi, I recently graduated from Sussex University, and came here to say a few things.

1. I do not at all agree with the promo material that they have included in their freshers packs from dig-in. I think it's an unacceptable oversight, and having worked in the offices at the students' union I'm disappointed in my ex-coworkers.

1. The transphobia in the original post and in the ensuing thread is unacceptable. You are all tarnishing a very valid point about the sexualisation of women by being unnecessarily transphobic. Let's set a few things straight:

• Every building across campus has standard toilets, split by sex, with multiple cubicles. Every building also has purpose built individual toilets, which are full accessible and gender neutral. This is to ensure that all students are able to go to the toilet whenever they need. This is not a co-opting of disabled toilets, as these have been purpose built. There are plenty of them, and I have never seen a queue of more than one person for one (in the newer buildings, there are groups of 5 or 6 of these individual toilets, and so there's always space). This has not only ensured that trans and non-binary students feel safe going to the toilet, knowing that they won't face abuse for "being in the wrong toilet", but has actually also led to more accessible toilets being built, so has been beneficial for disabled students.
• Dr Kathleen Stock, in the article she posted a few months ago, did not "politely question some aspects of trans theory". She peddled the same myth that is peddled by the far right, that trans inclusivity will lead to "men dressed as women attacking women in the toilets". If you do some of your own research, you will realise how ridiculous this premise is. Firstly, if a male predator wishes to attack us in the toilet he will - he doesn't need some complicated ruse to do so (including years of hormone therapy, changing your government documents, and possible surgery? Yeah sounds likely). Secondly, there is not a single instance of a woman being attacked in a bathroom by a trans woman. Not one. Zero stats to back up this wild claim. Thirdly, there are thousands of instances of trans people being attacked in bathrooms. Trans and gender non-conforming people are the ones at danger, as can be shown by actual facts and statistics. For example, why don't you google the rate of violent attacks and murder of trans people, or their life expectancy, or their suicide rates. And finally, the argument that Kathleen Stock made just reinforced the dangerous stereotype that trans women are not women, but are in fact "men in a dress". It's 2018, we know that isn't true, and we have the science to back it up. And in terms of the impact on students - I have friends in her classes/on her course that feel unsafe, and over the summer we had prospective students get in contact asking if they should swap to another university, because they were terrified that they would be targeted on campus. Because of what she said. So yes, her words (and yours) have an impact, and do indeed make minority groups feel targeted and unsafe.
• You also mentioned the This Sussex Girl Can campaign. This is a campaign that I have been involved in, which aims to get more women into sport at the university. Alongside many year-long strategies, one of the ways it does this is a This Sussex Girl Can Week, during which there are taster sessions and beginner classes for a bunch of sports (plus some other fun activities), which are open to women only. Your problem was that the University/Students' Union has a definition of a woman that isn't "person with vagina". Because, as I said, it is 2018 and science has moved on from such binary ideas of gender (yes, science. look it up). So these sessions are open to anyone who identifies as a woman (cis women, trans women, and any non-binary people who feel that they are a part of this group (afab (assigned female at birth)/femme/others). I've been to many sessions, as well as helped out in the before and after of this week, and behind the scenes. And guess what? The sessions have always been super successful, with a bunch of people able to try sport and exercise, and feel safe and comfortable whilst doing it! No-one has ever complained about the presence of someone there who they don't think should be there. Because misogyny and the patriarchy don't just affect cisgender women. It isn't just cisgender women who feel uncomfortable at the gym, or unsafe walking home. And so we understand that, and we accomodate for that, and we benefit more students as a result.
• Finally, you seemed to take issue with the idea that the things you have mentioned are put on a pedestal, whilst "real issues" are ignored. First off, as I have already been through, these things are important, and oppression is not a competition, so don't try and make it one. But also, those things that you think are ignored are not. The Students' Union has a Feminist Society, which puts on events year round. They have the I Heart Consent campaign, which aims to decrease sexual assault at university, support survivors, and teach students about consensual sex. They have the Good Night Out campaign, which goes out into Brighton on popular days, patrols outside bars and clubs, and provides assistance to anyone in trouble. This can be lending an ear, getting a taxi, helping someone find their friends, minor first aid, and a whole host of other things, which are aimed at especially making women safer on nights out.

There are too many other things to mention going on, but if you actually care, you can take a look at the students' union website and find out for yourselves. Of course, I get the feeling that you don't care, and you just wanted to go on a transphobic rant. You had a really good point about the blatant sexism in that promotional material, and you ruined it by trying to play the oppression olympics, and trashing other minority groups in your quest for equality. Next time, think about how your words have impact.

What did paragraph breaks ever do to offend you?

Hoo-ah

Before we move on can you reference the 'thousands' of attacks on trans people when they use the right toilets for their sex. Thanks. Then let's chat.

Next time, think about how your words have impact

I dont think you have thought about this bit...at all!!

Can you provide the statistics for the thousands of transpeople attacked in bathrooms (I believe you mean toilets?) in the UK please?

The issue is with allowing men into toilets. It doesn’t matter if every transwoman on the planet is a living saint - allowing ANY man (which is what self ID will do) will mean there are no single sex spaces for women.

That’s the issue. Any many can come into the bogs.

Do you think all toilets should be open and unisex? If so how do you justify that when all aid agencies/development agencies iterate the need for single sex sanitary provision.

We have single sex spaces so that MEN do not have access to females when they are vulnerable. Self id will allow men in.

Do you think all men should be able to access all women’s loos? If so, may I ask why?

Mate, I got as far as ‘do some research’ and stopped.

Look up and down this board, all we do is research and share research.

All. Day. Long.

I think they must be spent after that. Maybe need a lie down and a cup of chamomile tea.

You had a really good point about the blatant sexism in that promotional material, and you ruined it by trying to play the oppression olympics, and trashing other minority groups in your quest for equality

Silly us. Not asking nicely enough not to be objectified and degraded again.

"BrushBox is a company which prides itself on its family and ethical ethos and we are very disappointed that something which was meant to encourage good health habits amongst students has caused any offence"

So they are "disappointed" in women (who will be the majority of people complaining) being pissed off that 18yo girls are being presented with this as a "Welcome to University"?

They are disappointed that women reacted like that?

What a weird thing to say.

Instead of 'behold, a man has appeared' we have, 'lo, a graduate has appeared' telling us exactly what's what

rw280 I am slightly shocked that you can graduate with an actual degree these days and not understand basic biology. If I had children they would be dissuaded from studying at Sussex after reading your post. You would really benefit from reading a lot of what is posted on this forum. All of wgat you are stayed has been addressed many times over

*you are saying

And also - this isn't a trans thread. It's about the right of women not to perceived as cock receptacles. Stop appropriating.

How about MEN stop being such cunts and attacking other men in the toilets if they are MtF? But oh no, that won't do because addressing the issue of male violence here means addressing it in all walks of life.

Just shove everyone in with the women. Job done.

I’m pretty sure Kathleen Stock has never used the term “man in a dress”. In fact, I have heard her speak, and she explicitly and convincingly affirmed her support of trans rights. If students can’t cope with debate in a Philosophy department, of all places, or deal with hearing the biological fact that humans can’t change sex, they should stay in the safe space of their childhood bedroom in their parents’ suburban semi. Universities are not a crèche for the emotionally fragile, they are places for critical thinking and academic rigour.

the transphobia is unacceptable

I mean really

So these sessions are open to anyone who identifies as a woman (cis women, trans women, and any non-binary people who feel that they are a part of this group (afab (assigned female at birth)/femme/others).

So they are open to anyone who wants to satly they are a woman or 'non-binary'. So that is literally anyone, of any sex?

So it's not a woman's group is it? It's just a group for anyone?

Also, I like how you have come onto this thread and gone 'yeah yeah, obvs I think this ad campaign is awful, objectifying womenblah blah blah blah, sexual harrassment yada yada yada, disappointed in my co-workers etc etc... Now can we get onto talking about how trans people are the most oppressed people on the planet please'.

Universities are not a crèche for the emotionally fragile

They really should hand out fresher’s packs containing that. Perhaps on a nice mug? Everyone likes a nice brew.

Along with biology textbooks, maybe.

Based on the lack of intellect shown in the post by an alleged graduate of SussexUni, I now have two reasons not to send my children there.

Do they issue degrees in Flailing Outrage?

And breathe.

school run I know you're about to be spammed with stats about how transpeople have attacked women and an explanation of how self ID will allow non trans men in to harass women...

But do you really think Karen White never used the toilets in jail?