Any Irish feeling a bit isolated...

[SuperStylin]

...for being critical of the gender critical?

The referendum was such a high but the repeal groups I was part of have gone on to become equality groups (I have no issue with equality but the issues they are fighting for seem in almost every case to be to the detriment of women)
It’s gone from such a high to such a low as it’s overwhelming how quickly people will dismiss you as transphobic for airing a genuine concern.

Wondered is there anyone in a similar situation or if you can point me in the direction of likeminded groups?

Thanks Nettle, I was beginning to question myself.

Coming back to this thread after receiving Nettles PM. I'm definitely not the person for primetime. Public speaking is not my forte. I would definitely balls it up.
Not sure if anyone here is brave enough, but it would be great to get a strong articulate voice to present the facts.
I was thinking about how to present the issue for a broad audience in Ireland. In the UK debate a lot of counter arguments claim the gc side is just hysteria and scare mongering. That claim will be even stronger in Ireland given that the legislation has already passed and there is no evidence of the sky falling in. No high profile cases. Just pondering really.
I think the impact on confused kids who may desist and sport are hugely important and should resonate well.

I’d love to have the confidence to speak publically about this, but I couldn’t stop myself from getting in a flap and sounding like a hysterical pearl clutcher.

I cry when I’m really angry. Not a good look.

I'm certainly not the woman for that job. I'm terrified of public speaking!

Ok, so I'm good at public speaking and I have been on the TV and radio before, many years ago!!! I'm just fearful as I am in the process of applying for a job in psychology which is very much front line and I am worried that they will blacklist me.

So, what to do.

Actually ladies, I can't do it. Just too fearful of the day to day where I currently am.

Nor me. I gave it some serious thought but the idea of being on telly for anything genuinely horrifies me. I'm an extremely private person and you couldn't pay me enough money to go on camera and speak at length about the weather or my favourite socks. Going on primetime to speak about gender critical views is a whole level beyond that.

I've seen Posie's youtube rant and it's pretty clear she has no time for reasons like mine, or reasons to do with fear of losing your job or getting a hard time from family. She's exceptionally fearless, though. I think it will be difficult to find someone similarly fearless to go on tv in Ireland where society is so much more tightly knit (i.e.: everyone is only 2-3 degrees of separation from everyone else).

It makes me sad we are all so scared (me as much as anyone). It just shows how toxic the debate is.

I'm a brit living in Ireland, I've been here for nearly 20 years and have a 12 year old DD. She is already dealing with the trans issue with friends. One friend has taken on a male persona, another has a very pragmatic mother who said 'fuck that'. DD and her (non trans) friends seem to be treating it as a phase and go along with the new identity while making it clear they don't really believe it (a bit of gentle ribbing happens).

I've kind of come out as GC locally lately and I've managed to peak trans several people using what is happening in the UK, followed up with..'of course we already have self-id here..' So many people don't know.

I'm in the mid west if anyone wants to meet up in the Limerick/Galway area but I would be willing to travel to Dublin if a people don't mind a brit joining in. DP was just saying the other day that I need a hobby that gets me out of the house...

I got the pm too and my job prevents me from doing anything like this (obliged to be politically neutral publicly) I am going to start talking to people though and trying to get the word out there. Also when this runs on Prime time it will get a lot of coverage which hopefully will open the debate in the right way -depending how it’s covered of course

I think they may be open to just getting feedback - there is no obligation to appear on TV, nor reveal your name. They are aware of the genuine fear and reasons around that.

@glinner has made his twitter account private; his last tweet was that he was receiving abuse on this topic.

I read the Irish Times article and it was interesting to read the first hand accounts. Their youth worried me. On the other hand, without reading such articles, I can’t hope to understand or empathize how people who feel misgendered feel. I am still listening and learning.

Just making sure everyone saw this article - www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/10/03/4162881-judge-to-consider-legal-points-in-mayo-case-involving-transgender-pers

There's a thread here too www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3386138-Trans-woman-argues-they-can-t-be-tried-in-court-as-they-were-a-man-when-they-committed-the-crime

This has incredible potential to allow anyone to simply change the past and erase literal history, no matter how straightforward, criminal or violent. If it could be publicised it could shock a lot of people who are completely unaware of the situation here.

What is the deal with Aidan Comerford? I used to quite like him as a thoughtful articulate man but the fact he is so blinded by the ideology and just cannot see the concerns of women is really troubling. He also seems obseessed with Glinner. Anyhiw this is his latest 'discussion' on Twitter:

twitter.com/lecanardnoir/status/1048838747767394304?s=19

I followed AC briefly after I read some interesting things he said about mental health but he's a complete woke bro who doesn't seem interested in any opinion that doesn't tally with his own.

Did anyone else read yesterdays Sunday Times (Ireland edition),the person trying to use a gender change to get away with drug offences made the front page (below the fold followed up on page 2) and there are some details in it not in the Connacht Telegraph article that honestly make me think they could get away with this farce. Apparently the "gender change" had happened a year before the charges so this person was legally "Fiona" and not "Patrick" when the crime was committed.

AC doesn't seem aware in that exchange that the Irish GRA provides for prisoners to be accommodated in the estate of their actual sex, not their self-ID gender. Not that Ireland is specifically mentioned, but with his whataboutery about women raping women and prison guards, you'd think it'd be relevant Andy Lewis has the measure of him.

But Christ the woke bro blind spot is so infuriating. Accuse the other party of insincerity about putting women's safety first, then veer back to "so you want the trans women to be... uncomfortable?!!"... Oops, you forgot to pay even lip service to women's safety yourself, Aidan. Woke fail.

miri, farce is right. I mean I don't know if the gardai made errors in the arresting or charging procedures or what. But does the legislation provide for a person to "no longer exist" or what? Is it fit for purpose?

Would any trans rights organization who campaigned and probably drafted the law stand up and say they intended it to be used to get people of criminal charges? FFS.

secondrow the Irish GRA nowhere provides for "prisoners to be accommodated in the estate of their actual sex".

Under current Irish law you can't move prisons if you are in the prison of one sex you cannot be transferred to the prison of the other sex as its down to warrant issued by the court (although thats probably ripe for an ECHR case)

The court could decide to issue a warrant for a transwoman to a womens prison, theres nothing stopping it and if you read pg 18 and 19 of this pdf (from a few months after self ID) its said that they go on whats on a persons birth cert which with self ID is changeable

www.iprt.ie/files/IPRT_Out_on_the_Inside_2016_EMBARGO_TO_1030_Feb_02_2016.pdf

Francis Fitzgerald confirms here its based on "legal identity" www.inis.gov.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PQ-24-01-2017-106

With regards to the farce of the case in Mayo, the GRA actually states
18(6) "The issue of a gender recognition certificate shall not affect the rights or liabilities of a person or consequences of an action by the person in their original gender prior to the date of issue of the certificate. "
revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2015/act/25/revised/en/html#SEC18

So the issue then becomes was this drug offence prior to the issuing of the cert or was any of it prior to its issue. I actually feel for the Gardai, if they have someone know to them who gets an essentially secret certificate.

My question is do the Gardai have access to the register of gender recognition and I can't find the answer anywhere.
Considering you can have unlimited changes its like a charter for mischief. When bringing this in they should have made it a requirement for a background check or something to alert Gardai to name changes etc of people known to them and also to allow an objection to be made if its felt necessary if someone is on the sex offenders register.

AC did a very compelling post on how vulnerable his severely autistic daughter is compared to her peers, and how the 8th would have catastrophic consequences on their family should she become pregnant. Below is an excerpt-

"Before this referendum was called, I was ignorant. I had no idea of the myriad of ways that the eighth amendment has affected Irish women's healthcare and rights. I have heard some truly tragic stories, and I would never dream of standing in any woman's house and forcing my choice upon her, especially when I don't have to live with the consequences of that choice."

The fact that he cannot see the parallels here just shows he's nowhere near as intelligent or compassionate towards women (actual women) as he likes to think he is. Self ID is no less of an evil than the 8th- in fact it's more of a risk to women, as we have nowhere to turn to to voice our concerns. The reality is that the proposed changes and the system in Ireland is wide open to abuse and safeguarding loopholes. And who will that hurt most? Vulnerable children and women, like his daughter.

Shit, sorry miri, I misunderstood something I read on here quite some time back and I was thinking yesterday I need to go back and look for a source on the details, just as well I didn't jump onto Twitter all guns blazing . Thanks for the links, I need to read up.

Yes. When AC mentioned women raping women in prisons I almost combusted inside. This is all about the men for him and I don't get it - I really don't. He completely refuses to consider any view point except his own. In a previous twitter exchange he argued about intersex being a spectrum and Mrkhtake2 came into the conversation to help him with some facts and he blocked her! That takes a special kind of arrogant knobhead.

The thing that particularly aggravated me is that AC happily uses his daughters’ disabilities as a way to disarm other people’s concerns or objections to self ID. That because he doesn’t see any issues with the lack of gatekeeping regarding self ID, then no reasonable person could either.

I mean what non-dickish response can you reasonably give to that argument? There’s no way of coming out of that without sounding like you’re telling him he’s a crap parent.

Forgot to mention I’ve NC- I’m not new to this thread!