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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Any Irish feeling a bit isolated...

211 replies

SuperStylin · 16/09/2018 21:22

...for being critical of the gender critical?

The referendum was such a high but the repeal groups I was part of have gone on to become equality groups (I have no issue with equality but the issues they are fighting for seem in almost every case to be to the detriment of women)
It’s gone from such a high to such a low as it’s overwhelming how quickly people will dismiss you as transphobic for airing a genuine concern.

Wondered is there anyone in a similar situation or if you can point me in the direction of likeminded groups?

OP posts:
RavenWings · 18/09/2018 08:18

Bang of terf off this one" they'll say. A bang = a bad smell. Off a strange woman on the internet whose feminism doesn't fit in with your idea of feminism. So she smells. She's not "this person" or "this woman" she's "this one". An "it".

Er, no. Thats either a misinterpretation or you trying to hype up a perceived culture of fear or intimidation. Bang of means that you seem like. They don't think you literally smell like a terf, it's just a phrase. And "this one" is a common phrase now. Look at instagram and all the people posting using captions like "Diceys tonight with this one" "holibops with this one".

It's an annoying woke phrase but the negative connotations you're reading into it are there in your mind only.

ZenaThor · 18/09/2018 08:23

I’ve found my people! I have had such a sense of unease about this issue lately -mainly from reading threads here - and it never seems to be mentioned anywhere in Ireland and I’m sure if I spoke to anyone about it they would think I’m crazy! There was a post on a FB group over the summer from a mother with an upset daughter because they had been informed that the school toilets would be gender neutral-most replies were ‘sure it be grand everyone wees’ etc etc - no concept of safe spaces etc. I worry for my children’s future

Juells · 18/09/2018 08:29

Er, no. Thats either a misinterpretation or you trying to hype up a perceived culture of fear or intimidation.

And here we go. The cavalry has tracked us down and will now make sure we talk nice.

SecondRow · 18/09/2018 08:33

That article linked from extra.ie was well worth reading.

There is also this one by the same journalist about gender neutral toilets in schools:
extra.ie/2018/07/08/news/irish-news/we-are-not-indulging-our-children-with-gender-neutral-toilets

pachyderm · 18/09/2018 08:35

Ravenwings I'm well acquainted with the language of social media. The disgusting abuse heaped on gender critical feminists by other Irish women is not "in my mind only". I've been around a while and even anti-choicers didn't talk to me like that in the 80s and 90s. But obviously I need you to correct meHmm

Juells · 18/09/2018 08:38

How about you state your interest in this thread, Ravenwings? Every woman on this thread is either Irish-living-in-Ireland, Irish living in UK, or of Irish extraction. What's your reason for plopping in and policing our language?

RavenWings · 18/09/2018 09:16

Not that I need to prove myself to you but anyway I'm Irish, born and bred, see some issues with the rise of gender politics (though I disagree with a lot on here) so I like to read here. I also like to correct people going ott and misinterpreting others - as I see it, anyway.

I won't disagree that there is abuse, I disagree that that particular phrase is abuse and I think reading things into common social media phrasing is stupid.

Juells · 18/09/2018 09:29

I also like to correct people

RavenWings · 18/09/2018 09:34

😂
You can take me as a tra in disguise, don't care personally. I just felt that that post about "bang of" etc etc had the entirely wrong end of the stick and was reading negative things into common phrasing.

pachyderm · 18/09/2018 09:40

Ravenwings - "bang of terf off this one" is abusive and dehumanising. There are incidents of harassment and real threats I know of but can't relate on a public forum because of confidentiality. Glad you find it all so fucking hilarious though.

ludog · 18/09/2018 09:44

In fairness, I'd be inclined to agree with Raven about that language. I see "doing xyz with this one.." regularly on fb, twitter etc. However, context changes the meaning so when it's being used negatively it dies sounds different.
On a different note, what strikes me most is the irony of people who absolutely despise the Catholic church and speak scathingly about 'sky fairies' seem to be the ones most willing to swallow the trans dogma and who will vilify anyone not toeing the acceptable party line. Critical thinking seems to totally desert them on this one subject.

pachyderm · 18/09/2018 09:57

ludog yes, and think of the safeguarding and child protection guidelines that arose from the appalling abuses of the Catholic church. Just chucked out the window now when the magic trans holy water is sprinkled about.

Juells · 18/09/2018 09:58

You've corrected us all and explained that the poster was wrong to think that an insulting phrase is insulting. So can we get back to the conversation we were having beforehand?

ludog · 18/09/2018 10:07

Pachy...exactly.Women of my mother's generation couldn't comprehend that a 'man of God' could do such vile things and it never occurred to most people that men with bad intentions might see the priesthood as some sort of invisibility cloak to get them into a perfect target population. With hindsight we can all see that and yet when another cohort are doing EXACTLY the same thing there is a collective unwillingness to learn from the past. It's staggering how strong the denial is.

Juells · 18/09/2018 10:24

I roll my eyes whenever I see the phrase "lessons will be learned" as they never are. When the next disaster looms nobody seems to be able to see that the differences are superficial.

pachyderm · 18/09/2018 10:51

I know. Even in the past month or two when it's been revealed that flashing, wanking, rapey fetishists have been allowed access to vulnerable women under the trans umbrella, and invited to advise on policies affecting vulnerable women and children, there's no backdown or humility. I saw a young Irish woman on social media describe Karen White as a "female rapist" ffs.

Juells · 18/09/2018 11:00

I give no fucks now, I just think they're of very low intelligence. It goes beyond liberalism and into stupidity.

ludog · 18/09/2018 11:09

When I was a child the church had an iron grip on the country with the majority of the population Catholic. We listened to men in dresses who told us material reality changed when they said certain words. Whether we believed or not we pretended to and anyone who didn't was considered a crank or worse....look where we are now!

dinosaurkisses · 19/09/2018 02:11

Anyone follow Aidan Comerford?

Just got into a Twitter-spat with him here.

Pity, I really respected him during the 8th Debate.

pachyderm · 19/09/2018 07:15

Sadly I had him pegged as a mansplaining misogynist long ago. Some of the people he retweets, oh lordy...Confused

Irish Twitter is CHOCK FULL of these men. Braying about "the terfs" and putting uppity women in their place. I suppose it's a new, valid way to get the boot in, as anti-abortion views became less acceptable in public.

Phuquocdreams · 19/09/2018 07:24

I guess if people aren’t aware of the counter-arguments, they just link gender critical people with homophobia, pro-lifers etc and so ripe for abuse. Especially as they have there own easy to spit out name - terfs. Because of the proximity of the two referendums, gay rights and feminism are I think quite linked in Ireland. (Btw why the criticism of Panti Bliss? I quite like Panti Bliss, and he is a bit of an institution at this stage, so criticizing him does kind of play into the hands of those trying to portray terfs as socially conservative “phobes”)

Juells · 19/09/2018 09:11

Btw why the criticism of Panti Bliss?

I find drag acts so offensive on such a visceral level :( And 'Panti' FFS. Hammering home the point that it's one set of genitals laughing at the other. He's parodying women - or an offensive stereotype of women.

As for feminism in Ireland, how can any bunch of women who claim to be feminist come out with shit like this on the front page of their website? This Mother’s Day, as you were probably celebrating the wonderful female identified person(s) who raised you and/or brought you into the world... Like the 'menstruating persons' in another thread, they've tied themselves into such knots to avoid that awful word 'women' that they're only fit to be laughed at and mocked.

TheBeastAwakens · 19/09/2018 09:47

I'm Irish, GC and can't come out because of my job.

Amnesty Ireland tweeting about 'pregnant people' today. I am sickened. Can women not have anything? This should be a day of celebration but I can't stomach the handmaidens and wokebros crowing on Twitter. Fuckers.

Juells · 19/09/2018 10:04

They're getting slaughtered on their twitter thread.

pachyderm · 19/09/2018 10:14

Pantibar is full of really foul misogynistic art. He's an institution all right, doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Look at this appallingly sexist article about the Irish Feminist Network.
trinitynews.ie/features/2013/10/the-women-are-coming-a-profile-of-the-irish-feminist-network/

"She's not...some kind of hysterical militant man-hating opportunist"...he helpfully points out about his friend Colette, before reassuring us that feminism is for men too. Why are these young women so timid?? If I were Colette I would kick Tommy her "friend" to the fucking kerb! The MRAs succeeded in devaluing feminism so much that when there was a bit of a resurgence in Ireland about 6 years ago re the 8th amendment, they have to reassure the men that they aren't the horrid manhating kind and fucking apologise for the whole thing.