The term "men in dresses"

[AuntMsVanillaRose]

Trans-excluders like to say that they're absolutely fine with boys who don't fit in with gender stereotypes. And I, not one of you, am fine with children not fitting gender stereotypes. But I don't think that is true of all of you. Why is "man in a dress" used as an insult by so many of you?

*BOY George

" I wonder."

you don't need to wonder. You know it. It's fine for trans identified men to threaten violence and death, to use horrible insults and scare tactics, because they are , you know, men.

Women should shut up and 'be kind'.
Yeh right.

Wow! Mind blown. As a corollary, I wonder what effects are afforded women who don trousers

We get told we should make more of an effort to look prettier.

When DS was much younger and clearly doing a double-take I said to him 'it's just a man in a dress'. I wanted to avoid a repeat of the scenario when he said very loudly in a busy city centre 'that fat man is eating a double burger'. So I can see 'men in dresses' could be diplomatic and considerate of others feelings.

ps Avocado & honey sounds dreadful. I'm on mid-morning snack of a packet of mini cheddars.

Sorry, maybe I’m missing something?

I like reading the FWR board and I’ve learned so much, and understand the bullying tactics of the TRA. But to me, this thread seems to be ganging up, and brings back lots of bad memories of me being bullied when I was younger. If you want to silence certain Posters and threads , then there must be better ways of doing it.

The OP starts by calling gender critical people "trans excluders". This makes it clear to me that they are not interested in actually having a debate or indeed "building bridges" as suggested in another thread. The gender critical position is not to exclude a person on the basis of being trans. It is to exclude (and just in certain areas such as changing rooms, prisons, refuges, sports, etc) on the basis of a person's natal sex, with possible exceptions for those born male who no longer posses a penis. Trans men would thus not be excluded. They need protection/ health care etc for exactly the same reasons natal women do.

I am totally in favor of the current crop of male YouTube stars who challenge gender stereotypes with makeup, heels and sparkly clothing. They don't call themselves trans/female and are doing manhood a massive Cavour by widening the definition of what it means to be male.

There is nothing wrong with being a man in a dress.

My trousers give me the power of straddling things in an uninhibited manner. It’s super. I’m straddling a clothes horse right now.

And you don't need a plate as you put the honey and lemon juice in the seed hole,and the pepper all over and it mixes in when you scoop each spoonful out.

Red Flag! Red Flag!

What is amazing is putting very lazy chilli on your sourdough before the avocado. I think it's the bit of vinegar that just elevates the whole thing.

I choose not to say man in a dress on the TGLWGH principle.

But I have absolutely no problem with men in dresses. I do have a problem with men in women’s spaces.

A site-specific Google search for the term "men in dresses" on Mumsnet returns 47 results. 2 of those are for this thread. 1 is an image panel of screenshots. 10 are not from the feminist board.

So for all the many months and years of postings, the hundreds upon hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of posts, women on FWR have discussed "men in dresses" 34 times.

34 times.

https//www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Awww.mumsnet.com+"men+in+dresses"

One of my fave men in dresses. A blast from the past.

"Men in dresses" isn't an insult. It's a factually-accurate description of adult human males in garments that cover the torso and upper legs with a single tube. Jaden Smith is a man in a dress and many women here have applauded him for his honesty in challenging norms of masculinity whilst not claiming to be a woman.

Unlike "trans exclusionary radical feminist", which is an insult because it is factually inaccurate: our politics includes lobbying for the safety and rights of trans people who are born female.

Nice try with the DARVO though.

John McLean is another outstanding man in a dress.

mobile.twitter.com/houseofmaclean/status/942079874512179200?lang=en

Jaden Smith is a man in a dress and many women here have applauded him for his honesty in challenging norms of masculinity whilst not claiming to be a woman.

IIRC the TRAs weren't that impressed with him though. They felt he shouldn't express himself that way as it made it harder for MTFs who would be coded as GNC men rather than the women they clearly are.

I won't presume about WHY a man might be wearing a dress at any given moment: gender dysphasia is one reason, but there are others.

So, rather than presume and risk getting it wrong, I just carry on with my day.

I might say good morning as I walk past, just as I might with anyone else I pass in my neighbourhood, or I might not.

I don't shout out "you're a man in a dress!" Even if those words might initially have come to mind.

Because they are a factual description. Like "today I'm wearing jeans and a sweater; I'm a woman in trousers."

Is the phrase "women in trousers" also offensive to you OP? Or just "men in dresses". If so, why?

Both are just statements of fact.