The term "men in dresses"

[AuntMsVanillaRose]

Trans-excluders like to say that they're absolutely fine with boys who don't fit in with gender stereotypes. And I, not one of you, am fine with children not fitting gender stereotypes. But I don't think that is true of all of you. Why is "man in a dress" used as an insult by so many of you?

Take Eddie Izzard and Grayson Perry. They are men who wear dresses sometimes. Because they like them. Because dresses are great. But they are not women and they don't claim to be women. They are men in dresses.

I have not one single problem with a man wearing a dress. It is simply a garment. I choose to wear dresses more often than not and I can imagine as a man on a hot day it would be quite lovely to wear a dress. I don’t really give a shit what people wear, apart from when my DH wears his the greasy clothes he has worn to mend his bike, at the dinner table.

I do however take issue with people adopting a stereotypical pattern of dress and through that co-opting the oppression I face purely because of my sex.

‘Men in dresses’ is a factual description not an insult. It’s no different to saying ‘women in trousers’. The only way it could be seen as an insult is if you think there is something wrong with a man wearing a dress.

Men in dresses isn't an insult, it's a description.

This.
Pure, simple fact. And no cognitive dissonance.

And I, not one of you, am fine with children not fitting gender stereotypes.

"Except you do - otherwise you wouldn't think that a man who acts like a stereotypical woman is actually a woman."

And that dresses are insulting on a man.

Men in dresses. It is a thing. Get over it.

bakingdemon

Take Eddie Izzard sorry, but he’s jumped on that bandwagon too. 🙄

There’s nothing wrong with men wearing dresses. I can see why they’d want to. It would help keep thier Male genitalia cool.

I suppose you could use lime juice instead of lemon.

‘Men in dresses’ is a factual description not an insult. It’s no different to saying ‘women in trousers’. The only way it could be seen as an insult is if you think there is something wrong with a man wearing a dress.

Yep.

Get over yourself, Rat. For your sake.

Actually, men wearing dresses is very sensible - fertility is declining partly because of "warm scrotums". I heard it on R4 so it must be true. Fortunately, wearing a kilt is also a preventative measure.

I wouldn't recommend anything too tight fitting though.

I've got some porridge and berries- nice and autumnal!

I think you may have posted on the wrong forum? I've never seen that used as an insult here.

Personally, I would rather live in a world where it’s ok for men to wear dresses/makeup/heels if they want to, without having to reclassify themselves as ‘women’ to feel comfortable doing so.

A man is still a man regardless of how he presents himself to society. Sex is written into our DNA and affects every cell in our bodies – wearing a dress does not change that.

Stating this is not an insult, it is inescapable, scientific, fact.

To me, men who genuinely identify as women and show this consistently through their life (i.e. in the smaller social gestures that women tend to do more) shouldn't be described as 'men in dresses', as they are not acting like stereotypical men (OR at least are trying not to, as best their own conditioning allows).

Those men who continue to act like stereotypical men (i.e. bolshy, argumentative, must be right, incensed if not kowtowed to) whilst in dresses get labelled as 'men in dresses', and rightly so IMO.

If adult males wear dresses they are men in dresses. It's a fact. Why, what did you think they'd be called? Elephants in cravats? It would help you to accept this fact and move on, I think.

I don't like to take breakfast but please may I have some English tea with lots of sugar? Strong, please, yes definitely strong tea this morning.

it's the kind of phrase that upsets those affected more than those unaffected could possibly comprehend.

I would say this places the problem firmly in their camp to deal with. Get some help if factual phrases upset you so much. No one should have to live like that, it’s untenable.

I don't use the phrase myself but I guess it is making the point that not everyone who wears a dress, is a woman or that wearing a dress, doesn't make someone a woman.

By the way, I'm having watermelon for breakfast.