Dr Nicola Williams on BBC2 at 10.15, Victoria Live

[PersistenceIsNotFutile]

Twitter thread here: twitter.com/AskNic/status/1039073161252364288

Imagine the unease creeping over the barristers taking the Gender(sic) discrimination case to the High Court.

It may be unwise to put TH (with complex mental health, alcohol misuse and anger management issues) anywhere near a judge.

I saw an interview with TH and TH's mum on the local news, upon release from prison. Not having had time to dress up, put on a face of make-up, and having taken a little bit too much of the hard stuff, he was ....er... let's just say 'difficult to interview' and stormed off, waving V signs.

On balance, I think I quite like Tara.

Can you imagine Tara and Stephen Whittle in the pub?

See, middle class woke bros, this is what happens when you try and appropriate a working class, sex worker’s actual lived experience for your political aims.

This^^

Let me see if I've got this right. Tara Hudson has been saddled up by Cerian Jenkins, TELI, her local MP and Caroline Lucas in order to gallop in a change in the law?

www.carolinelucas.com/latest/caroline-tara-hudson-must-be-moved-to-a-female-prison-immediately

That change in the law has led directly to a paedophile sex offending rapist assaulting four incarcerated women.

Tara has been hung out to dry. And after embarrassing herself on national telly has finally snapped and had a go on Twitter.

They will eventually see you for what you are/realise their lives are no better for your intervention and you will lose all control of the narrative.

Tara is a twit. But Tara could look mighty purdy in a photo and was the ideal candidate to change the law.

My cynicism knows no bounds.

Is everyone in this sorry state of affairs a user?

There are some uncensored social media sites such as MeWe and GAB. Unless an all-women network is set up I suggest that we resume the discussion there.

I feel that I have to point out that Green is a recent arrival. Wouldn’t it be just peachy if all the GC stalwarts here fucked off to another site out of sight and the FWR threads shrivelled, led by the pied piper? To be honest, I thought plugging PeachYoghurts alternative site on here was a bit rum. I thought I discerned a dip in activity for a few days after. We can’t afford to be split and driven into smaller and smaller units. One of the true strengths of MN is its visibility and reach. I can work around MN’s rules and still get my point across. Free, uncompelled speech is important but we also need to get our message out to the public fast & MN is proving to be a useful resource right now.

I skipped 2 pages to post & now see everyone else made the same points as me. 🤷‍♂️

To be fair, young, HSTS transsexuals are also at risk of predatory AGP types.

I don’t blame Hudson for not wanted to be lumped in with the rapists.

I guess that’s why Hudson was such an appealing test case? Looks good on instagram, doesn’t say rapey things about lesbians (because TH fancies men), wasn’t in for a sex crime and although the crime was violent, the sentence was short and it wasn’t inflicted on a female victim.

So yes, looks like TH was used.

Will be interesting to see if TH pushes back against TH’s users in the upcoming court case (although at this point the only saving grace for TH is the prospect of compensation, so I doubt TH will want to risk that, which is understandable, considering the clusterfuck TH has been dragged into).

boatyardblues

Totally agree with your post. (And not just because you used the word rum).

Whether green is genuine or not, splinter groups can be extraordinarily effective, in terms of grassroots activism.

So yes, great.

But on mumsnet it's a different kind of activism. It reaches an inordinate number of people.

There is zero point in cutting off any avenue.

It's not an either/or.

And anyone who is advocating for that, would be suspect, in my opinion.

Same here. I was a 'regular' MN user, but because of FWR my eyes were opened.

People like 'me' won't be reached on other sites.

I'd love a full TA big brother.
^It would be amazing.

Tara wolf
Paris lee
Shon whatever
India again^
Lily of course.

Ooh yes please.

Steff on Knee?
Jane Fae
Stephen Whittle
One of the pretty transman model types (who ends up looking dead wee next to the enormous transwomen)...

Can I just point out the value of putting truly ridiculous, no one can argue for, cases on Chat and AIBU? So far this week I've done Karen White and the wiping of record that reveals sex case. There's a lot of people who don't come on this board so will only see these things on there. It's how I came to learn about this craziness.

I do try to pick ones that are instantly obvious to anyone of why they are wrong. But it would be great if more than me could start them - otherwise it just looks like I have an axe to grind. And of course the comments on these threads are fantastic.

Thank you!

This is on chat right now. One poster is saying it's perfectly normal to wear breast binders!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3362940-dd2-just-told-me-she-wants-me-to-buy-her-a-binder-and-i-think-i-handled-it-badly?pg=2&order=

Tara has some rude names for fellow transwomen who Tara doesn't seem to believe are women at all.

Tara wants to form an alliance of 'real trans'.

Tara doesn't think Munroe 'Borgdwarf' is a real trans. Nor Paris Lees.

Tara talks about 'late transitions' and 'cross dressers'. I'm not sure which these two are supposed to fall into.

It's quite odd.

I can see Tara's point about 'late transitions' (including presumably most rapists in prison), but Munroe & Paris aren't really late transitions are they?

Anyway, if Tara can't work out who is a 'real' TW and who is not, how are we supposed to?

Tara could be our best secret weapon yet...

I wonder if Tara's looking at this from a commercial angle at all.

Tara is selling a stereotype of a pornstar, constantly 'horny', etc.

And being associated with perverts & rapists isn't going to do much for Tara's image and ability to sell herself as this cute, horny girl.

Just to concur with Datun.

One clarification, there is NO LAW that says a rapist gets to be a in female jail, nor is there any law that says gender ID means anything in prison.

What has happened is the TRAs (TELI et al, with Caroline Lucas and Tara Hudson as their useful 'idiots' and leverage) changed the POLICY.

What prisons, like everywhere else are entitled to do is apply the Equality Act single sex exemptions - which in certain circumstances apply to transwomen with a GRC too.

There is absolutely no law anywhere that says males get to go to female jails.

I wonder what Caroline Lucas is feeling about the chain of events she set in motion, cos in effect Tara Hudson put Karen White in a female jail (if we boil it down)? That must be a TAD embarrassing for her, given recent events ... wonder if she'd comment?

There is absolutely no law anywhere that says males get to go to female jails.

Thanks for the clarification GirlScout72.

Yes, changing policy, not law. And that makes the whole thing even worse, doesn't it? It's all completely avoidable. Legally.

And being associated with perverts & rapists isn't going to do much for Tara's image and ability to sell herself as this cute, horny girl.

I know somebody who cheated constantly on all his girlfriends with trans prostitutes, and was a huge consumer of trans porn.

He needed there to be no argument over the "transwomen are women" statement because he was as homophobic as he was untrustworthy. He came close to lamping me one time if my inner "I'm going to get clocked in a minute if I don't shut up" radar was in any way as accurate as it usually is. Just because I didn't buy TWAW and didn't back down at his first show of verbal force.

I know from other men I have known (who felt what happened in BKK, stayed in BKK and didn't "count") that he isn't alone in needing that reassurance that sexual/romantic contact with people with a penis isn't gay if said penis is attached to a transwoman.

That subset of clients could shrink decisively if unconvincingly female transwomen become as much the face of transwomen as the ones who pass much better. Because it is possible it will damage their self-image of "not gay", not to mention making it even harder for them to defend their "not gay" status to their circle who are already unconvinced that people with a penis are female.

People are very complicated, and I think Tara more than most will be aware of the conflict and mental workaround some men have to manage in order to have any sort of intimate relationship, in person or remotely via a camera, with a transwoman. Not to mention the anger some of them can generate if the protective facade they have built around their perceptions starts to crack.

I think Tara is many things, but I do not believe entirely stupid is one of them. I don't think any of the above is unknown information in Tara's circles. Commercial, romantic and personal safety considerations may feature quite strongly in that world and contribute considerably to how Tara, and those in similar circumstances, now choose to position themselves in the debate.

I know, I'm discussing this this morning in light of the TUC decision and women feeling downhearted.

The thing is, these are OUR rights. They cannot simply give them away without asking us! They just can't. It might be bloody terrifying right now, but they are not allowed to do that.

So the way I see it, we have 2 things to do:

1. stop any changes to the GRA, that is the number one job, and if we're lucky, get some clarification on terms (like 'transsexual' and 'transgender' and 'gender reassignment'). So we hold the line. To do that we fill in the consultation and get absolutely as many people as possible to the same thing.

2. push back on POLICY - there is absolutely no good reason why cross dressing rapists are going to female jail (nor is there any good reason why a male is working as a bra fitter in marks and spencers, or little girl guides are having to shower with boys etc etc etc etc). This is because organisations are not understanding and applying the LAW WE'VE ALREADY GOT. Those are our laws! And the only reason they are doing this is TRA lobby groups asked them to before we all noticed. And now we have noticed, we very firmly ask them to change it back. This has already happened with the female changing facilities with the YMCA in the States, after THOUSANDS of complaints, and we can do that here. Government policies are a bit trickier, and more bureaucratic, but it really is JUST about changing the policy.

I appreciate it sounds flippant, but it really is THAT SIMPLE. Policy is not law. Women don't like the policies, so sufficient numbers of women say 'we are not accepting this policy, how very dare you' and that's that!!

I can see Tara's point about 'late transitions' (including presumably most rapists in prison), but Munroe & Paris aren't really late transitions are they?

When teens and children as young as three transition, Munroe and Paris probably can be classed as late transitioners.

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/transgender-prisoners

Looking good!

Betty

That is incredibly heartening, although I didn't know about this:

"The current Prison Service Instruction on transgender prisoners highlights a legal judgement from 2009 that stated that a male-bodied prisoner who had a gender recognition certificate as a female 'had to be transferred to the female estate even though one of her index offences was attempted rape of a woman'."

When I've got more time I'll look that up, as I thought - in fact I'm sure - there is a mechanism for 'females' to be held in the male estate if considered too dangerous for the female estate.

That's very heartening indeed Betty.