Dr Nicola Williams on BBC2 at 10.15, Victoria Live

[PersistenceIsNotFutile]

Twitter thread here: twitter.com/AskNic/status/1039073161252364288

Interesting to note that as well as Press for Change, TELI tweet has signposted towards 'Women in Prisons' as an expert source along with themselves and Press for Change.

Its a long established charity:
"We support women to avoid and exit the criminal justice system and campaign for the radical changes needed to deliver support services and justice for women."

One would hope that a charity committed to would indeed be an important voice and hopefully one which would be at the forefront of advocating for those women in prisons who have been sexually attacked, 'intimidated' etc by male-born prisoners.
www.womeninprison.org.uk/about/who-we-are.php

List of Trustees some clear links to Garden Court Chambers and NUS (LSE/Goldsmiths)
www.womeninprison.org.uk/staff/trustees.php

Tara should never have been sent to a men's jail. I do wonder why (given the media attention she's had and how confident and assertive she is) she didn't mention the alleged rapes before (I can only see groping allegations).
I hope she makes the complaint to the police and its investigated.

However there needs to be separate facilities to house trans prisoners. How on earth can the authorities discriminate between the taras and the Marie deans of this world?

Some prisons do have specialist wings for trans people - there are 12 transwomen in HMP Littlehey, for example.

However, Littlehey is also almost all older sex offenders, and is on the other side of the country to Tara, who only served a short sentence.

Seperate trans spaces in the estate of the birth sex is most reasonable, although difficult in terms of keeping people near their families etc.
Still, it’s not women’s work to figure out. As far as we know there is only one female born trans person (Gayle Newland) in prison and they seem to be sticking with their female name and pronouns (presumably the last thing they want is to be in with Male sex offenders).

Betty,

I think Clare Taylor (now going by Taylor as identifying as a man apparently) is still in a women's prison. Taylor does not want to go to a man's prison.

crime

link to campaign to get Taylor parole

Came across it when looking for the background on Jess Bradley. Who wants all trans prisoners to be released.

Seperate trans spaces in the estate of the birth sex is most reasonable, although difficult in terms of keeping people near their families etc.

^^ This - however, given the lamentable state of the prison estates, it wouldn't take many Self-Id'd prisoners before the prisons literally couldn't house them. Men's prison estate is already groaning at the seams.

And, if they can't be housed, other arrangements such as release under house arrest would have to be considered. They'd reach that point very quickly.

Frankly, who wouldn't Self-ID if it got them the prospect of special treatment and even home-based release?

"Frankly, who wouldn't Self-ID if it got them the prospect of special treatment and even home-based release?"

Well exactly. You don't have to undergo any medical treatment or surgery, you can change your name to hide your crimes and then be lauded as brave and stunning. There is no downside at all to self-identifying as a woman. When you get out of prison then you can change your name to a new male one and then start your life again.

Who would want to self-identify as a sex offender when there is a positive alternative of self-identifying as a woman?

The word "woman" will soon come to mean all female people plus male sex offenders. Sex offences will be seen as something that primarily women commit against women and children. I give it 3 years.

Thanks Popchyk - I will amend my mental list to 2 (1 sex offfender).
Neither want to be in the Male estate, so the ‘‘separate trans area in the birth estate’ works for female born prisoners.

Except there isn’t enough of a demand to provide seperate areas so I guess they just require staff that are trained to understand any additional challenges their trans status throws up?

If non-binary becomes a thing they won’t even have to say they are women...

How on earth can the authorities discriminate between the taras and the Marie deans of this world?

Genuine question, what is the difference?

And actually, I guess we’re at 3 due to the recent Carlos DeLaCruz case?

Not heard about the prison arrangements there though?

I think there is already a mechanism within the male estate for female prisoners. Rules are that any female prisoner deemed too dangerous for the less secure environment of the female estate (women don't generally commit these crimes hence the female estate not really having the facilities) can be moved to special facilities in the male estate?

This has never actually happened, not even with the likes of Rose West, but surely that means there is already a mechanism for trans women, they could just use those facilities?

The word "woman" will soon come to mean all female people plus male sex offenders. Sex offences will be seen as something that primarily women commit against women and children. I give it 3 years.

I wish I felt confident enough to bet against you on that.

I don't.

there is already a mechanism for trans women, they could just use those facilities?

There are mechanisms - there literally isn't the physical infrastructure to cope with more than a tiny number.

One of the reasons behind prison riots is the abysmal physical condition of the prison buildings and their facilities: these are crowded beyond capacity (and the reality of this varies from one region to another with some having spare capacity and others being more overcrowded.

This week's Howard League count of prison numbers and overcrowding for England and Wales reports 82,846 prisoners in England and Wales (including Young Offenders):

Prisons are extremely overcrowded. Under the Ministry of Justice’s own definition of safety and decency, the prison estate should not hold more than 75,346 people. There are currently 7,500 men and women held above this level. Overcrowding is not evenly distributed across the prison estate, so some prisons hold many more people than they are designed to do so safely.

howardleague.org/prisons-information/prison-watch/

Tara Hewitt (co-founder of TELI)

The Carlos Delacruz case. Reported here that CD is held in segregation while they assess where CD should go. Presumably in a male prison at the moment.

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3181313/carlos-delacruz-falkirk-fake-willy-prison-male/

This made me laugh in the article.

"The Spanish delivery driver’s gender is now officially male but he hasn’t had full realignment".

Note that Scottish prisons wouldn't be included in the Ministry of Justice figures as they cover England and Wales only.

That headline is like something out of a Carry On film!

LAG IN LIMBO Prison chiefs segregate Falkirk sex beast with no penis because they don’t know if he can be held in a male nick

This person pleaded guilty in July.

And was sentenced in September.

Ample time to have an assessment about where to put the criminal, you would think.

Demonstrates that prison authorities really have no clue about what they are doing with this.

Francis Crook commented in June 2018 Daily MAil Article:
'As more trans women who were convicted as men hope to follow rapist Martin Ponting into female wings, prison governors fear vulnerable inmates could be attacked'
(extract)

"Ms Crook, executive director of the Howard League for Penal Reform, added: ‘These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration.

‘Moreover, the process is inherently discriminatory. A woman identifying as a man could not be transferred to a man’s jail because placing a person with female attributes into a prison to live with 1,000 men, all using communal showers and living areas, would put them in serious danger.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

When the prison service stood by their decision to put Tara Hudson in a men's prison, in the face of a huge campaign to get them to change their minds (150,000 signatories to the petition, protests, media and politicians lobbying and NO-ONE supporting their action) they did a very brave thing:

They released him early.

I honestly think that this is another reason why men claim to be transitioning in prisons. Transitioning is a headache for the prison service - eg the need for separate showering times and other special treatments - so there is an inclination to get rid of the problem.

I suspect that the trans person in the Scottish prison will be released when no-one's looking, very soon.

Thanks for that tweet Rowan. What are TELI doing ?

I honestly think that this is another reason why men claim to be transitioning in prisons. Transitioning is a headache for the prison service - eg the need for separate showering times and other special treatments - so there is an inclination to get rid of the problem.

I strongly agree - the prison estate doesn't have the spare capacity or building infrastructure to cope with more than a tiny number of prisoners who are transitioning.

Self-ID would break the system in no time and see either early release or other community surveillance release. (I quoted some Howard's League statistics on current prison over-crowding in another thread.)

The recent TELI Twitter thread is very intersting Wanderabout, its worth looking at, especially as so many legal firms and lawyers are associated.

LOL.

See (attached image) Tara (now called Dannii) saying that the intersectional feminist that started the petition (www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-i-started-the-petition-to-save-a-trans-woman-from-an-all-male-prison-a6713881.html) that got Tara and other penis-owners out of men's prison ruined Tara's life.

Tara's quite the ungrateful 7" prick, isn't she?

Cerian started #ISeeTara on Twitter.

It seems Cerian didn't see Tara too clearly after all.

'your SJW stuff'.

fucking hell.

TELI retweeting allegations from a parent involved with Mermaids Charity.