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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some lighter reading - gender non-confirming goths oppress trans people!

159 replies

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 14:10

Given how much recent news has been horrifying I thought some of us could do with a laugh, so hear you go - Robert Smith's eyeliner is oppressive to people who want everyone to know that wearing makeup means you're a woman.

www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/06/23/goth_culture_needs_to_embrace_the_gender_identities_of_all_its_members.html

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ChattyLion · 03/09/2018 21:14

Hmm I think we may need to ask @CesiraAndEnrico and the Stickerwomen to do a short run of Women don’t have Penises designs for goth venues?
Maybe with a subtle nest of vipers design in the background?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3342172-Thread-2-Anti-trans-vandals-are-plastering-vile-women-don-t-have-penises-stickers-around-THE-WORLD?pg=1&order=

MrsTerryPratchett · 03/09/2018 21:17

I was literally just trying to convince DH to wear eyeliner yesterday. He'd look super-delicious. He refused, citing the Depp defense.

Am I gay now or not?

Yambabe · 03/09/2018 21:46

It's not just goths who like a man in eyeliner though, us sleazy rockers are quite partial. I'm going to take this opportunity to show you a couple of pictures I took this weekend.

Well just this one really. Exhibit A.

This is Phil (with the bandana). He is no stranger to guyliner and flicky hair although consensus is that his current hair may not be entirely ahem natural. Phil first came to my attention in 1980 when he was singing in a band called Girl, even though they were all boys. He was also a z-list celebrity at the time as he was Britt Eckland's much younger boyfriend. His look back then was somewhat androgynous to be sure, but his sexuality was never in doubt.

With Phil is his friend Traci, who has a girl's name but is also very definitely not a girl. Traci wears less makeup than Phil, but has more hair. He is actually the "Guns" in Guns N Roses, for all you trivia fans, although he left before they got famous.

I was watching these guys from the crowd. I don't have short hair but I was wearing cut-off denim shorts and a t-shirt with their band name on that I bought nearly 30 years ago. Oh and less make-up than either of them. Less make-up than the guy stood next to me too actually.

They don't give a shit about stereotypes and gender conforming, and nor do I.

Do your own thing. Be more Phil!

Some lighter reading - gender non-confirming goths oppress trans people!
Ereshkigal · 03/09/2018 21:58

Kuill came out as agenderer*^ at age 26 and, seven years later, routinely encounters a problem that makes me want to rage-quit the universe: being read as a poorly made-up drag queen, even in fully styled pin-up goth looks.

I just broke a rib laughing. Or rage quit the universe. One of those two Grin

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 22:01

It's the universe's fault that Kuill's makeup application skills are shit. And also that they decided to call themselves Kuill, which people no doubt assume indicates either that they wanted to call themselves Kill but wimped out at the last minute, or that they can't spell.

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Pumpkinsarepurple · 03/09/2018 22:20

What a load of self obsessed clap trap, when I was younger, just like Yambabe, all the hottest sleaziest rockers wore make-up, try telling Poison, Motley Crue et.al, that they were insulting trans identified people.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 22:22

Nikki Sixx is a woman! My, he certainly is a strapping not so young lass, isn't he?

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AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 22:23

Sorry, she. They? Take enough recreational chemicals and you may well start to think there are 3 of you.

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Yambabe · 03/09/2018 22:36

Well there were a lot of rumours that there actually were 2 Nikkis.....

Google Matthew Trippe, I remember the story when it broke in Kerrang!

RJnomore1 · 03/09/2018 22:36

But but but...what about the Emos?

They're not goths or trans...but man Brendon urie looks good in a spot of guyliner...almost takes me back to the glory days of the late 90s. I'm pretty sure I remember photos of blur in eyeliner

What was this thread about again???

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 22:38

So, looking at this thread, what we can establish is that women are most definitely attracted to men who wear makeup. If they're good looking, and there's the rub, eh?

Also if they're not delusional gaslighting narcissists. That helps too.

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Pumpkinsarepurple · 03/09/2018 22:40

Haha yeah I remember the Matthew Tripe stuff and the fact that Nikkis writing credits and royalties were in a different name for a while.

In an extra twist I modelled my hair on Nikkis in the 80's Grin

Yambabe · 03/09/2018 22:44

I modelled mine on Michael Monroe.

He still wears more make-up than me too lol. AND he can still do the splits......!

Some lighter reading - gender non-confirming goths oppress trans people!
Some lighter reading - gender non-confirming goths oppress trans people!
Yambabe · 03/09/2018 22:48

Ah no RJ the emos definitely aren't non-binary, they had short hair. Floppy fringes but short hair!

moofolk · 03/09/2018 22:50

Oh the poor babes.

It's tough. Imagine wearing clothes and make up and people just thinking that you're wearing clothes and make up.

And poor Zoe. Coercively assigned female at birth, and people calling her a she just because she wears make up and dresses and has a girl's name and is a woman.

And little Tarquin-Tara Smythe who thought about goth gender so much he literally disappeared up his own arsehole.

picklemepopcorn · 03/09/2018 22:56

S'not fair... I want to stand out as special AND I want to be a Goth. I'm trying to make myself look more special and subversive and different, and the meany Goths won't let me.

Letshopeitsallok · 03/09/2018 23:01

The bit about being a goth in Florida reminded me of this little blog

gothsinhotweather.blogspot.com/?m=1

Yambabe · 03/09/2018 23:02

Lightbulb moment!

Instead of arguing and oppressing each other, why can't the goths just have their own gender?

They are not men or women, male or female, masculine or feminine (or "femme", wtf? Can they not be arsed to say the whole word now the lazy arses) so there is no conflation of sex and gender. They are just Siouxsie.

JellySlice · 03/09/2018 23:06

Good idea! Often Goths appear totally androgynous, anyway. Wasn't that partly the point of Goth? To appear undefinable?

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 23:09

But the trans goths want to be SpecialSiouxie, and are very upset that all the other goths are failing to recognize their specialness.

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BeyondAnOmnishambles · 03/09/2018 23:33

”And poor Zoe. Coercively assigned female at birth, and people calling her a she just because she wears make up and dresses and has a girl's name and is a woman.”

Actual lol there - well done 👍

Hmm thoughts for sticker woman....
Black outline, pentagrams and inverted crosses around the edge with “no, goth women don’t have penises either”? Grin

BeyondAnOmnishambles · 03/09/2018 23:34

Gothgender! My pronouns are... “what’s the point of pronouns anyway. Everyone judges me regardless and I hate them all”

BeyondAnOmnishambles · 03/09/2018 23:34

Sentences might get a bit long though...

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 23:36

My pronouns are Angst and Despair.

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Yambabe · 03/09/2018 23:39

highfives moo

Or if we are in goth mode, possibly waves a black lacy hanky in Moo's general direction Grin

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