Green Party thread 3

[FermatsTheorem]

Previous thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3347925-Green-Party-statement-continuation-thread?pg=40

Will post links to AC's public statement and Caroline Lucas's appalling white wash job in a moment, but for me, Andrew Gilligan nails it yet again:
twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1034776005326581767

I think whistle blowers have been gathering information for a good while. Their mere existence and bitterness over how they have been treated can be erased by deleting a few tweets.

If you think social media is everything I think you are wrong. The trail of emails, screen shots and other forms of correspondence will say a lot.

A company like Verita will have a good idea of the right questions and that alone will have people panicking - and potentially giving up information.

If being aligned with Aimee is no longer politically beneficial, there will be people who will drop Aimee right in it to save their own necks. Though I think in doing so, they'll reveal more than they realise.

www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2018/09/01/green-party-announces-details-of-independent-investigation/
On the face of it the Terms of Reference for the investigation look Ok and broad enough to cover all necessary bases.

The company doing the investigation Verita look hardcore and won't muck about.
www.verita.net
They have experience in serious incidents in health setting, complaint handing and whistle lowing issues.

This looks heavy duty.

It is going to take 3 months?

Christ.

Weird that the GP's very first statement on the matter said that the Green Party had no knowledge of the allegations about David Challenor until after his conviction. They've deleted that statement now by the way.

Now one faction in the GP is saying that the Party did know.

So, which is it? Can't both be true.

And Aimee has made two lengthy statements. Neither mention that AC informed the Green Party, which is an interesting omission. You'd surely make reference to that it if were true.

Yes the word progressive was jarring if it's about establishing facts and responsibilities

But overall a more professional and grown-up approach compared to the cack-handed blundering and awful virtue signalling of the past week

At first glance, the investigation looks at individuals not structures.

That's a limit.

I disagree.

9. Consider whether any changes should be made to Party policies and procedures to strengthen them in the light of these events, and make any relevant recommendations

10. Consider whether any new policies or procedures need to be developed and implemented by the Party, and make any relevant recommendations

Structural falls under recommendations rather than investigation. Individuals will highlight structural issues by providing examples of the problem.

You don't look at structure initially. The role of individuals and how they bypass the system, undermined it, exploited etc leads to the other.

I am actually pleasantly surprised at how rigorous it looks like the investigation will be - doesn't seem at all like the Greens' modus operandi.

If I was being very cynical I might suggest that was why Lucas tweeted an independent investigation was going to happen, before the democratic processes of the Green Party told her not to...

Verita and its people have done some good work for other organisations. That said, it's surprising that they're not including the systems organisation from the outset in the light of Caroline Lucas' comments.

I would like to know why November 2016 is the beginning of their "chronology of events" as it won't capture TC's unwise comments about DC's victim nor explore whether AC saw the information about the 'legal letter' and the probably nature of the charges. tbh, I would like their remit to include TC and whether it was fully OK for her to stand for election (setting aside the DC as election agent issue) given her suspended sentence. And, for that, they'd have to go back to the time of the RSPCA conviction, possibly - but that's nuance.

We'll see what transpires. And hope it's an improvement on what is happening to NUS and their timescales in re: J Bradley.

They have experience in serious incidents in health setting, complaint handing and whistle lowing issues.

It is going to be worth digging into previous published reports, if any are available and see what findings and recomendations they have come up within the past.

If I was being very cynical I might suggest that was why Lucas tweeted an independent investigation was going to happen, before the democratic processes of the Green Party told her not to...

Bloody certain she did. Its how I read it straight away. How can you argue against an independent inquiry, if its already been mentioned publicly. She had to get it sorted before she leaves as co-leader. Her legacy rests on it.

I also doubt she could have done this without Bartley. Since he wants a future in the party leadership his silence is likely to be a quiet support for Lucas.

Overall this investigation is the most encouraging news I've heard all week that the party is taking it seriously. My main worry is not about the investigation itself which I feel from this will be independent and thorough - it's the bit on publication and whether there is political pressure to dilute the finding/recommendations in the way that they are finally published. But I think there are enough angry members about to ensure that this doesn't happen and that there would be a leak of the original findings if it did.

My other question is, how are the Greens going to afford this investigation? They are hardly a wealthy party...

Re Bartley Silence.

Does Lucas alone have authority to sign off the funds to pay Verita? They are not going to be cheap (this might put the party close to the edge financially in the short term. If a snap election is called, they might have issues with cash flow).

All testimonials:
www.verita.net/about-verita/testimonials/
CEO, Walsall Healthcare NHS Trust
Head of investigations (mental health homicides), NHS England
Private Secretary to the Secretary of State for Health
Secretary of State for Health
Director of Nursing Standards & Safety, Sussex Partnership NHS Foundation Trust
Public health advisor, NHS England
Director of Workforce and Communications, Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust
Greffier of the States, States of Jersey Assembly

The terms of reference look reasonable to me.

What I am concerned about is if the resulting report and presumably recommendations from Verita will be published in full.

That's imho the get out clause here...

Ironically, the Green Party has been carrying out a review of its governance and structures. The Holistic Review Team will present their report to this Autumn Conference.

It has its own website and has been consulting on the contents.

The words " moving" "deckchairs" and "Titanic" come to mind.
There's lots of stuff (as per usual, this always happens in the Green Party) about committees and task groups and inclusion blah blah. Very little, if anything, on leadership, managing, supervision and conduct.

greenholisticreview.co.uk/

Amateurish again.

The Green Party does have reasonable reserves and (quite rightly) the grownups in the national party have probably concluded that if they have to slash back the campaigning budget to pay for this it's something that has to be done. They cannot afford any more cackhanded amateurishness on this.

Just want to say thank you to you wise women who are able to explain the way political parties work and read between the lines on things, especially Red. I am very grateful for your posts, I wouldn't have a clue about this stuff without these posts.

My other question is, how are the Greens going to afford this investigation? They are hardly a wealthy party...

Does anybody have a ballpark figure for how much it will cost ?

I'm cheered by Red's comment that Verita is a serious outfit. Notmleast becuase it raises the bar for other, more wealthy, organisations and parties when their own chickens come home to roost and it is their turn to investigate deficiencies.

Going to get harder to gloss over the comparison between what CL has organised, and some chummy, internal, secretive chin wag session, with lots of not mentioning it again in the hope the problem will go away.

What I am concerned about is if the resulting report and presumably recommendations from Verita will be published in full.

Thats the million dollar question.

If the report says, you've got a bucket load of individuals you really need to kick into touch, will they do that or go with a fudge of 'giving the benefit of the doubt' cos they are 'the nice party'.

Frankly I'm hoping that the compulsion to virtue signal to the point of martyrdom pops up in the report for this reason (it won't: its beyond the scope of the remit!)

Does anybody have a ballpark figure for how much it will cost ?

A lot. I suspect they will make a lot of law firms look bargains.

Greens financial issue with paying is likely to be to do with cash flow rather than not being able to afford it.

They will be doing lots of funding raising next year.

I also want to say thank you to the wise women on this thread who have brought their many skills here. Seems an appropriate moment to say .

I certainly don't think that without Mumsnet and the pressure on Caroline via Twitter the enquiry would have been anywhere near as vigorous and as independent as this. Well done all.

Sometimes asking the right questions rather than speculating or proposing solutions is enough to change the course of things.

Never stop asking questions. Anyone. Nothing is too simple or daft. Often those are the best questions.

Political activism need not be able supporting a party or having a particular agenda. Just a desire to understand wtf is going on.

Never underestimate the value of holding to account just by talking openly.

Cost? - nearest I've come to something like this was close to 7 figures.

We're basically talking hundreds of thousands rather than tens of thousands imho. Best guess would be 150k upwards as a start point given the brief.

The enquiry starts now and is due to conclude in November.

Day rates for good investigative analysts start at around £500 per day. They can go much higher. There will be more than one person - possibly up to 10 not necessarily all working concurrently though - depends on what specialisms are required re: the specifics of the remit and it's relative importance.

A lot depends on if they've done a fixed price deal for the job or T&M. In the case of the latter you're not just paying for the consultants but their expenses too - travel/accommodation etc

All that said I'm basing this on a business, rather than political "consultancy shakedown" situation.

Trinity I sent a message to head office saying why I was resigning, though I don't expect a reply, I think it's important to register it though. I haven't sent one to the local party because a couple of men have been posting about TERFs and I'm not in a position to cope with any abuse because of current ill health and because as a survivor of abuse myself I don't want to risk it all triggering me. It's shit to feel so silenced, I have always been outspoken in the past.

Never underestimate the value of holding to account just by talking openly.

On that note. MNHQ, I know you and your advertisers get targeted something rotten when we talk openly about Naked Emperors.

So thank you. You are one of the few places left where people can talk, particularly women, whose other avenues are slamming shut all around them. If history doesn't remember you being on the right side of it, I will try to live to a ripe enough old age (former fag habit permitting) to remind it.

nearest I've come to something like this was close to 7 figures

Volunteer/low cost Rising Stars of Interesting Identity suddenly not looking like quite the bargain bucket option they used to then.

Re Sian Berry's disappearing tweets, suggestions on twitter are that as AC is frantically deleting his tweets, they disappear from others' timelines too if thay have retweeted them etc. So she may not be dumping Aimee herself and/or may not have stuff to hide.

Bea Campbell is tweeting that all media acs should be frozen, and the elections should be postponed. Bea is deffo one of the grownups tofollow.