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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy have come up with. Definition of "woman"....

250 replies

BertrandRussell · 30/08/2018 07:34

...and I have very rarely been so angry.

The British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy have come up with. Definition of "woman"....
OP posts:
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NameChangedAgain18 · 02/09/2018 10:38

According to their definition I’m either autistic or a man. How do I find out which it is?

carceralfeminist · 02/09/2018 10:38

Good.

R0wantrees · 02/09/2018 10:44

Word Version of the Guide still available from BACP link below:
(extract)
3.7 Sexual practice: BDSM, kink, and beyond
Definitions
BDSM stands for Bondage and Discipline, Dominance and Submission, Sadism and Masochism. The umbrella terms ‘BDSM’, ‘kink’, and sometimes ‘fetish’ or ‘leather’, encompass a range of consensual erotic, sexual, or sensual practices which may involve heightened sensations or pain, and/ or the exchange of power, and/or some form of restraint or role-play, and/or watching other people (exhibitionism) or being watched (voyeurism). Role-playing such as being an animal (furry) or being older or younger (age-play) are also common, although not always considered part of kink/BDSM. Some people regard their BDSM status or kink to be an identity, e.g. being a top or dom/me (dominant), a bottom or sub (submissive), a switch (who tops and bottoms), or a kinkster or sadomasochist. Others regard it as a practice they engage in which is not an identity. Some may keep their kink in the realm of fantasy and/or erotic reading/writing/viewing, while some engage in kink practices in solo sex and/or with others." (continues)

"Common concerns
While a person’s kink identities or practices will often be irrelevant to their presenting issues, they may well be nervous about working with a therapist – or revealing these interests – due to the continued pathologisation of BDSM (1.6), and the likelihood of having bad prior experiences with therapists (Kolmes, Stock and Moser, 2006; Kelsey et al., 2013). Kinky people are no more psychologically unhealthy than anyone else. Indeed the most recent research suggests that they may even be more healthy (Wismeijer and Assen, 2013). Nor do their childhoods differ in any meaningful way from non-kinky people (Nordling, Sandnabba and Santtila, 2000).

If people do want to discuss their kink practices or identities in therapy it may be because they are struggling due to cultural kinkphobia or people in their life who are unaccepting of their kink. Kink-affirmative therapy can be very helpful under such circumstances, as is an awareness of the various online and offline kink communities that people might find useful and supportive. Some people find their kink practices to be healing and/or therapeutic, for example as a form of stress reduction, as a way of dealing with past shame or trauma, or as a way of accessing different sides of themselves. In such situations therapy working in parallel with kink play can be very useful"

www.bacp.co.uk/events-and-resources/ethics-and-standards/good-practice-across-the-counselling-professions/

OldCrone · 02/09/2018 10:57

bacp guide still available here
www.bacp.co.uk/media/4185/bacp-gender-sexual-relationship-diversity-gpacp001-aug18.pdf

AngryAttackKittens · 02/09/2018 10:59

All those articles make me wonder just how many journos are browsing this site for leads.

(Waves)

IAmLurkacus · 02/09/2018 11:06

So that’s times, telegraph and mail I need to buy today?

I do make a point of actually going and buying paper versions of news that is being reported on from FWR.

Prior to this kicking off I’ve only ever bought a paper to get free Lego and got my news on online.

But I will support any paper who does actual investigative journalism while our unfit for purpose politicians sit around navel gazing.

So lurking journos 👋WineBrewCake thanks Smile

kesstrel · 02/09/2018 11:15

It reminds me never to bother with counselling.

And that, of course, is likely to be one of the very damaging consequences for some vulnerable people out there. Counselling has always had questionable practices based on poor science, but the role of a professional body ought to be to screen these out, not to normalise them.

LadybirdsAreBirds · 02/09/2018 11:18

IAm

The problem is that not nearly enough investigative journalism has been done yet by journalists. MN and Twitter and the fab gender-critical feminists have been doing a lot of the heavy lifting for them, IMO (happy to be corrected on this)

LadybirdsAreBirds · 02/09/2018 11:22

I mean not disrespect to James Kirkup, Andrew Gilligan and Janice Turner. Their columns and blogs have been fab. I hope their editors will give them their heads to do some front page stuff.

I hope the Guardian pulls its head out of its arse of it deserves to go under

R0wantrees · 02/09/2018 11:23

from Sunday Telegraph today, article:
'My husband's a paedophile – but I still love him'
(Extract)
"The national picture is obviously murky, but by any available measure, this is one of Britain’s fastest-growing crimes. Government figures released late last year revealed a 700 per cent increase in the number of indecent images referred to law enforcement agencies since 2013.

Police now arrest an average of 400 people every month for viewing child abuse material. Most are men, but confound other stereotypes.

“We see men of all ages and backgrounds, family men and respectable professionals,” said West Yorkshire police assistant chief constable, Catherine Hankinson. The 149 adults they arrested last year included four company directors, two solicitors and four tech professionals." (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/husbands-paedophile-still-love/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

IAmLurkacus · 02/09/2018 11:27

LadybirdsAreBirds

Totally agree with you. I’m just trying to do my small bit to encourage getting this to go mainstream. No one I know believes in this science denying shite but also practically no one I know is politically engaged AT ALL.

LadybirdsAreBirds · 02/09/2018 11:29

IAm

Yes. we are all doing our bit. It is about getting it out to the average person, isn't it/

Charliethefeminist · 02/09/2018 11:30

Lurk and Lady I agree with both. Buying and subscribing matters. MN have definitely done the heavy lifting but it's taken days of collective effort. No single reporter would be given the time and space to do that on a story which until now has been universally unpopular and even seen as niche. This way, they have something solid to offer their bosses to start with.

arranfan · 02/09/2018 11:32

Police now arrest an average of 400 people every month...Most are men, but confound other stereotypes.

We see men of all ages and backgrounds, family men and respectable professionals,”...The 149 adults they arrested last year included four company directors, two solicitors and four tech professionals.

If they're seeing things with those blinkers on then it is sobering to contemplate what are they are refusing to see when it's happening right in front of them. Abuse of the inter-generational power dynamic to abuse and rape children is not confined to any particular ethnicity, faith, socio-economic or other demographic.

Charliethefeminist · 02/09/2018 11:34

Mumsnet's investigative work on the Green Party and some prominent transactivists hss been startling in quality and quantity. If this were a 'popular' story in orthodox fashion, for example if you were uncovering networks of far-right connections deep in politics, there would be much more conventional recognition. There'd be a mail story 'mums uncover complex Web of' etc etc.

Charliethefeminist · 02/09/2018 11:35

Yes Rowan that other story. Thank you for linking. More normalisation.

R0wantrees · 02/09/2018 11:38

We see men of all ages and backgrounds, family men and respectable professionals,”...The 149 adults they arrested last year included four company directors, two solicitors and four tech professionals.

The striking issue at the current time is that this statement should read,

"Most are males, but confound other stereotypes.
We see males of all age and backgrounds..."

FermatsTheorem · 02/09/2018 11:38

Yes I read that story, Rowan, and was horrified by the headline.

I can understand that you would still love the man you (mistakenly) had believed him to be, and that would take a hell of a lot of unpicking, probably with professional help. But that illusory man didn't exist, never had been - you'd have been living a lie as a couple all these years.

The whole article was so fucking "stand by your man" it gave me the rage.

LemonJello · 02/09/2018 11:41

The problem is that not nearly enough investigative journalism has been done yet by journalists. MN and Twitter and the fab gender-critical feminists have been doing a lot of the heavy lifting for them, IMO (happy to be corrected on this)

Totally agree with this. Much of FWR is investigative journalism now (as well as commentary)

That should be a news story in itself.

AngryAttackKittens · 02/09/2018 11:47

I can't bring myself to read the stand by your pedophile husband article, it'll just make me hope that a comet destroys the planet.

R0wantrees · 02/09/2018 11:48

Fermats
There is an incredibly powerful speech from a woman discussing her experience with her ex-husband from the recent 'Let A Woman Speak' event Plymouth (at 1:18 onwards):

PerverseConverse · 02/09/2018 13:21

Stop the world. I want to get off!

LinoleumBlownapart · 02/09/2018 13:51

Great, so in conclusion after all that waffle we have a definition of "woman" that makes the word "woman" completely meaningless. My husband and all other men can now be re-defined as women.

Where the fuck do they think they're going with this?

annandale · 02/09/2018 13:53

I think FWR, the Westminstenders and Trump threads are incredibly useful but they are NOT investigative journalism which is a specialist skill and not to be downgraded. I see them as more like i imagine the Roman Trivia to have been - noticeboards at the crossroads with all sorts of information, news and gossip on them. We have to continue to use high levels of scepticism on all these things posted anonymously (she says, posting anonymously). I think journalists may use these threads as a kind of cheap market research - how do we take stuff? What angle will work on us? And presumably then use us as backup on pitching a story (' eight pages on this topic last night on MN') if they don't just start the thread themselves.

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