BBC reality check on trans prisoners

[FermatsTheorem]

Let's play that great gameshow activity "what crucial piece of information is missing from this report?"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

Those numbers add up to more than 60 because some prisoners are serving time for more than one offence.

We don't know the gender of the victims or perpetrators in these cases.

Which is why, BBC, it is important to put in a breakdown of overall numbers of prisoners in the UK, numbers of sex offenders and number of violent offenders - BY SEX!

And, gosh, guess what, "Reality Check"? This information is but a quick google away, because the government actually put the figures online for us - they're not hidden away in a cellar with broken stairs in a locked filing cabinet with a sign saying "beware of the leopard."

From the report for 2017:
"In 1900 there were 152 male prisoners per 100,000 men in the population. This rate has increased to 348 per 100,000 in 2017. There were 27 female prisoners per 100,000 head of female population in 1900. In 2017 this rate had decreased to 16 per 100,000."

I believe the current figures are that 98% of the prisoners in the UK convicted of sexual offences are serving time in the male estate.

Sex offending (despite recent much publicised "women do it too" newspaper reports) is overwhelmingly committed by men.

Oh, another bit of important context for the BBC - from the Howard League for Penal Reform (so pretty unimpeachable source):
howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Living-among-sex-offenders.pdf

"In March 2014 16 per cent – almost one in six – of the sentenced adult male prison population had been convicted of a sexual offence, yet sex offenders 1 have been excluded from the sociology of imprisonment (Ministry of Justice, 2014). Despite several studies suggesting they are uniquely victimised in prison (see, among others,
Åkerström, 1986; Vaughn and Sapp, 1989; Sparks et al., 1996), almost no research has been undertaken into their distinctive prison experiences. This is particularly striking considering that there are currently almost three times as many imprisoned male sex offenders as there are women in prison, and numerous studies have been undertaken into women’s prison experiences (see, among others, Carlen, 1983; Kruttschnitt and Gartner, 2005; Home Office, 2007)."

That's right - there are three times as many male sex offenders in prison in the UK as there are women in total in prison for any offence.

www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Remember - those 125 transgender inmates only include people who have had a prison case conference. It won't include transgender people who haven't identified themselves to the prison service or who already have a gender recognition certificate.

So which prison would a transgender prisoner who hadn't identified themselves be in?

If in the female estate then they ARE choosing their estate.

If in the male estate surely it would be pretty obvious?

Overall the fact check is a good thing, no?

It shows clearly that reliable stats need to be established and released including the gender of trans inmates

It would be good for someone like FPFW to highlight:

• the contrast between the number of women convicted for sexual assault and the number of trans prisoners the BBC has confirmed.
• Are Transwomen counted as affected by the new guidelines for women prisoners, suggesting they should be treated more leniently.

Which is why, BBC, it is important to put in a breakdown of overall numbers of prisoners in the UK, numbers of sex offenders and number of violent offenders - BY SEX!

V good point

So, if self-ID comes in, there will be no more case conferences. And the number of trans inmates has gone from 70 to 125 within a year. Great.

It says here:

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04334/SN04334.pdf

About 15% of the prison population is serving a sentence for sex offending. If 60 of 125 trans inmates are in for sex offending, the raw data says trans inmates are 320% more likely to be sex offenders than the prison population as a whole.

Good spin, BBC, but some of us actually do proper fact checking and find it unlikely that there are dozens of trans prisoners in the male estate who haven't told the authorities they are trans. Because, y'know, vulnerable prisoners wouldn't bother accessing help, would they?

In a grim way, that Reality Check report is actually amusing to read. The hard figures are consistent with the claim by Fair Play for Women that 41% of transgender women in prison are convicted sex offenders.

But the writers of the report bend over backwards to say "so many complicating factors though, how could we possibly say for sure?"

How about this. Fair Play for Women appear to have highlighted a very worrying issue that could put women* in danger. It might be time for the government to assess whether the risk is there and if it is, to change policies to deal with the risk.

• FermatsTheorem's comment above about the missing red flag

But the writers of the report bend over backwards to say "so many complicating factors though, how could we possibly say for sure?"

Quite.

This is what I found reading it. Totally blinding with 'whatabouts'

I wonder if the commissar who spun the article was the writer or someone down the chain who had to vet it politically?

Would have been nice if they'd mentioned self ID as they pointed out that those with a GRC were excluded from these stats.

"We don't know the gender of the victims or perpetrators in these cases."

lol

How many conviction for rape?

This innocent eyes OH we don't know the gender of the perpetrators of all these sex offenders!

Ask ANYONE on the street who it is that carried out most sex offences and they will tell you MEN becuase the male / female ratio is SO disproportionate as to make it pointless to even consider a different answer.

Also, what relevance does the "gender" of the victims have? Do they mean sex? If it is a baby or toddler that has been abused, do the BBC put them in a "victim has no gender" category?

www.facebook.com/fairplayforwomen/posts/460649344345214

Fair Play For Women not at all happy about this.

Ok, so going into the FPW post...

The BBC article says

James Morton is the manager of the Scottish Trans Alliance, which assists trans people in various situations - including behind bars. He says: "The prison service isn't daft. They scrutinise each case carefully. Before any eventual move, there is very careful risk assessment, full exploration of the person's history and current circumstances and painstaking preparation."

So this is what trans lobby groups are saying, even as they campaign for self-ID.

This is an extract from government guidance for dealing with trans prisoners (PSI17/2016 section 6.3):

There may be exceptional cases where it is necessary to refuse a transfer to the female estate for a transgender (male to female) prisoner with a GRC. This can only happen if the risk concerns surrounding the prisoner are sufficiently high that other women with an equivalent security profile would also be held in the male estate.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/care-and-management-of-transgender-offenders

As FPW point out:

Since we have no current examples of women deemed too dangerous for the women’s estate we have no bench mark of what an equivalent security profile for a transgender prisoner would be. What we do know, however, is that the male-born transgender prisoner and double child rapist, Jessica Winfield, was not considered too dangerous for a women’s prison and is currently serving their 23 year sentence at Bronzefield prison. Winfield was reportedly moved temporarily into isolation last year for sexually assaulting other inmates.

So, at the same time trans lobby groups are campaigning for self-ID, they are also telling us there is no problem with male trans prisoners in the female estate without mentioning that this is mostly due to not having self-ID currently or that there have already been adverse events.

This article is laughably biased. And dangerously so, since it purports to be a fact-checking item.

From the BBC article:
"James Morton is the manager of the Scottish Trans Alliance, which assists trans people in various situations - including behind bars.He says: "The prison service isn't daft. They scrutinise each case carefully.
"Before any eventual move, there is very careful risk assessment, full exploration of the person's history and current circumstances and painstaking preparation."
We don't know how often transgender prisoners ask to move prisons, or how often those requests are agreed to."

Recent article :
'Bearded Aberdeen paedophile jailed for downloading vile baby sex pics starts secret life as woman after transitioning in Scots jail: An outraged mum whose son was murdered by a paedo has demanded a legal change over Christyl Knight’s new life as a woman'
(extracts)

"James Morton, of the Scottish Transgender Alliance, said: “Our understanding is that transitioning does not erase your past if you’re a sex offender.

“You have to give your new name to police. Trans people usually encounter greater suspicion. I don’t think it helps people blend in.”

Also quoted in the article Claude Knights (recently retired CEO Kidscape)
"The con is desperate for a fresh start but child protection expert Claude Knights said: “Allowing these individuals to hide a secret past is a dangerous practice.”

She added: “It’s not unusual for sex offenders to want a new identity but this is the most disturbing case I’ve heard of.

“When someone, so soon after getting out of jail, is trying to change not just their name but their sex and appearance too, it sounds like they’re trying to hide rather than reform.”

Echoing her calls, child protection expert Claude Knights said: “Anyone who’s fuelled the vile trade in indecent images of children and therefore contributed to their sexual abuse should not be allowed to change their name.”

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3006679/paedophile-jailed-transgender-christyl-knight-christopher-nobile/

Who is James Morton from Scottish Trans Alliance?
Prison governors, Francis Crook (Howard Reform League and Claude Knights (retired CEO of Kidscape) have all stated concerns based on professional experience which Morton seemingly dismisses.

recent incidents in Scottish Female Estate and transgender prisoners:

May 2018 OP TerfinUSA wrote:

" www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-killers-kept-apart-after-12493525

Yes it's Sophie formerly Daniel Eastwood who terrified a female guard into quitting her job www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/female-prison-guard-quits-after-9379668

(NB Eastwood, referred to here as Hannibal (Hannah-belle, shurely: ed) Lecter Jr is not to be confused with Tiffany Scott formerly Andrew Burns www.alloaadvertiser.com/news/15507716.Shirtless_prisoner_hurls_abuse_at_sheriff_as_she_is_jailed/)

Sophie's charming campaign of terror earned her a move from Shotts prison to the female wing at Greenock Prison, where she met her soul mate Alex Stewart (formerly murderer Alan Baker) the recently crowned 'Miss Fitness' www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3169178-Transgender-prisoner-living-as-woman-wins-jails-Miss-Fitness-competition-by-country-mile

Alex's tireless advocacy for transgender rights brought these two together www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237471-Transgender-prisoners-in-Scotland-progress-report

Sadly they have now been separated due to them 'touching and groping in front of the other prisoners.', with Sophie shipped out to HMYOI Polmont, which has separate accommodation for male young offenders and adult women like Sophie (there are also female prisoners at Edinburgh, Greenock and Grampian)"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242178-Transgender-killers-split-up-by-prison-chiefs

Also discussed:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242264-Transgender-murders-in-Scottish-womens-prison

BBC, impartial as always

This is a side issue, but did anyone else notice that, in the article, the BBC used the terminology about sex being “assigned at birth” but without quotation marks? I read an earlier BBC transgender related article recently where they did use the phrase within quotation marks. Perhaps the lack of quotation marks indicates the BBC’s increasing support for trans ideology?

The BBC:

Andrew Gilligan nails it:

mobile.twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1029082413304094721

Agree with Andrew Gilligan. It's a sad day when the BBC fact check seems to deliberately be trying to muddy the waters.

Fucking hell bbc. You can just give us the numbers and add a 'of course not all trans people' disclaimer.
Actually trying to obfuscate the numbers is a terrible tactic, bye bye journalistic integrity...
women are being locked up with and assaulted by male rapists !!! This is totally fine in the world of the bbc.

Isn't there an independent fact checking organisation? I remember their work after the Question Time episode with Paris Lees

Has the BBC article added Jane Fae's comment or was that always there?

The comment says:
"Transgender journalist and campaigner Jane Fae warns against reading too much into the available figures.

"The real danger is that the public are likely to misinterpret them in a way that will create unwarranted hostility toward the minority under the microscope. The fall-out in terms of violence and abuse will, in some cases, be significant."

This is a person who has campaigned for violent rape porn to be legal. Why are the BBC including this person's comments on the threat of violent sexual offenders to vulnerable females, but not including the increasing range of prison experts, gender identity experts etc who are raising concerns based on their experience in the field:

Andrea Albutt, president of the Prison Governors Association said in June 2018: “I have seen women feeling very threatened by transgender prisoners’ presence. Women prisoners are very vulnerable.”

Frances Crook of the Howard League, a prison reform campaign, has said that she is worried that ‘some men with a history of extreme violence and sexual violence against women have found a new way of exercising aggression towards women’.

The British Psychological Society has said this “psychologists working with forensic patients are aware of a number of cases where men convicted of sex crimes have falsely claimed to be transgender females for a number of reasons”

Dr James Barrett of the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists has said this: “It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this”

The fall out in terms of violence and abuse against the women prisoners will be significant if people don't look at the evidence, listen to the experts and use some common sense.