BBC reality check on trans prisoners

[FermatsTheorem]

Let's play that great gameshow activity "what crucial piece of information is missing from this report?"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

Those numbers add up to more than 60 because some prisoners are serving time for more than one offence.

We don't know the gender of the victims or perpetrators in these cases.

Which is why, BBC, it is important to put in a breakdown of overall numbers of prisoners in the UK, numbers of sex offenders and number of violent offenders - BY SEX!

And, gosh, guess what, "Reality Check"? This information is but a quick google away, because the government actually put the figures online for us - they're not hidden away in a cellar with broken stairs in a locked filing cabinet with a sign saying "beware of the leopard."

From the report for 2017:
"In 1900 there were 152 male prisoners per 100,000 men in the population. This rate has increased to 348 per 100,000 in 2017. There were 27 female prisoners per 100,000 head of female population in 1900. In 2017 this rate had decreased to 16 per 100,000."

I believe the current figures are that 98% of the prisoners in the UK convicted of sexual offences are serving time in the male estate.

Sex offending (despite recent much publicised "women do it too" newspaper reports) is overwhelmingly committed by men.

Re Tara Hudson's petition cont. :

cerianjenkins.com/

"Founder of the Gender Equality Network (_GEN). Stonewall School Role Model. Campaigns manager of #ISeeTara, #NotACompliment, and #SelfCareAware. Campaign Bootcamp graduate. Founder of the #RechargeAndResist project. Member of the B&NES Independent Equality
Advisory Group, and the Challenging Homphobia, Biphobia, and Transphobia Group.

I’m a columnist for DIVA Magazine, and my campaigning work has been featured in/on: The Independent, The Guardian, BBC News, New Statesman, Metro, the Telegraph, ITV, Buzzfeed, Huffington Post, the Express, the Mirror, Attitude Magazine, Gay Star News, Pink News, and more. I have also written for organisations such as The Fawcett Society and the Women’s Equality Party. "

recent threads:
Fawcett Society:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3311428-Why-are-Fawcett-staying-so-silent-Are-they-afraid

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3310443-Fawcett-Society-Live-stream-from-5-30pm-Courage-Calls-Ask-her-to-stand

WEP:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3318961-Ultimate-betrayal-by-the-WEP

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325882-WEP-conference-questions-for-panel-of-trans-rights-advocating-barristers

"According to Amnesty International, globally, LGBT prisoners and those perceived to be LGBT, are at risk of torture, ill-treatment and violence from other inmates as well as prison officials."

This is a problem and needs to be addressed by prisons. Lots of things in prison are a problem and need to be addressed by prisons.

Putting men at high risk of violence / sexual assault in with the women is not a reasonable answer. Loads of men are at high risk for one reason or another. The answer is improving prisons. See also, suicide rates in young offenders institutes. +++. So many issues.

My online complaint, mostly stolen from other posters (sorry):
About 15% of the prison population is serving a sentence for sex offending. If 60 of 125 trans inmates are in for sex offending, the raw data says trans inmates are 320% more likely to be sex offenders than the prison population as a whole. There are currently almost three times as many imprisoned male sex offenders as there are women in prison. Taken to extremes, self-id would skew the female crime figures massively, as the attack on the tube recently showed. "Trans" includes cross dressing straight men. 80-95% of trans women have a penis and wish to keep it, this is from the government's own data. Most female prisoners are convicted on non violent offences and the Prison Reform Trust states 57 per cent of female inmates have been victims of domestic violence, while 53 per cent have experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse as a child. None of this relevant info was in the article. No mention of the extreme nature of some trans activism. Also no mention of Jess Bradley, who has been consulted several times by govt and is under investigation by her union for flashing her penis for online dares, publishing questionable cartoon paedophilic porn etc. The reality check was anything but.
None of what I mentioned is partisan, it is factual. The omission of relevant detail on a contentious subject such as this, with a govt consultation underway and massive implications for the Equality Act and any sex-segegated services, is unforgivable from a public broadcaster with a mandate to inform.

Andrew Gilligan from The Sunday Times has summed it up -

"48% of trans prisoners counted by MoJ are sex offenders, FOIs find. Current proportion of sex offenders in the prison population as a whole? 19%."

"Almost half of trans prisoners counted by the Ministry of Justice are sex offenders, FOIs find - confirming @fairplaywomen and Sunday Times research. The BBC did the FOIs, but clearly didn't like the result - downplaying it in typically mealy-mouthed way."

twitter.com/mragilligan

Ceri Jenkins who wrote the petition is the Equality Officer at Bath Spa University.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41384473
Bath Spa again

Thanks Andrew Gilligan

Much to my surprise I got into conversation with an aquaintance's DH the other day. Andrew Gilligan has enlightened him to the TRA agenda. Must say it was very liberating to be able to talk to someone about it who didn't have a Can You Say That? look of alarm on their face

Turph

Excellent email

Is there a link to Annex A? Is Annex A the elusive tick list of exactly what constitutes 'living as a woman'.

Oh please let that exist. Please please please.

My thoughts exactly!

Is there a link to Annex A? Is Annex A the elusive tick list of exactly what constitutes 'living as a woman'.

Because that, in theory, should show the entire issue up for the sexist, ignorant nonsense it is.

I'd love to know how they determine the 'strength of the evidence' they talk about.

There's a link to the document 17/2016 that CaitlynsCat was quoting from on this page.
www.justice.gov.uk/offenders/psis/prison-service-instructions-2016
I can't link directly because it's a Word document.

Annex A is on page 28.

The evidence is the usual stuff:
Full evidence is holding a GRC or applying for one.
Strong evidence is:
Medical:

• Advice from GP
• Advice from Gender Identify Clinic
• Diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria
• Medication / Hormone treatment
• Psychological assessment confirms discomfort with birth gender
• Gender reassignment surgery

Actual life:

• Presents in the gender identified with
• Change of name and appearance
• Use of prosthetics
• Self-address and gender association
• Consistent use of gendered spaces
• Day to day living i.e. bank cards and other ID forms in acquired gender

Additionally:
A5 Where transgender prisoners who identify as gender fluid or transvestite wish to express their identity on an intermittent basis, prison staff must establish with the prisoner the degree and level of expression of gender identity. This may range from minor changes to appearance (e.g. wearing of nail varnish, minimal face make up and prosthetics) which may be accommodated without further action. If the expression of gender identity is more profound (e.g. use of wig, heavy make-up) this may require a security assessment and an additional photograph.

Items used to present in the relevant gender
A6 Transgender people, particularly those who have not undergone surgery or extended hormone therapy, may use various items to assist with their presentation in the gender they identify with. These can range from sophisticated prostheses to padded bras. Regardless of their level of sophistication, access to them can only be restricted in exceptional circumstances. IEP is not a justifiable reason for restricting access.

Use of name
A9 All transgender offenders covered in this policy should be asked to confirm the name they wish to be used consistent with the gender they identify with. For offenders who identify as gender fluid or transvestite who wish to be called by a different first name when expressing a different gender identity, agreement should be sought via a voluntary agreement subject to risk, security and operational assessments.

I find it incredible that this living as a woman thing entitles a man in prison to demand and be given dressing up clothes and make up to indulge his fetish. With the state tht most prisons are in and the treatment of prisoners in general it is amazing that somehow these men are treated as special ....how and why is this happening. Brilliant fact checking here by all of you . The results are frightening .

I find it incredible that this living as a woman thing entitles a man in prison to demand and be given dressing up clothes and make up to indulge his fetish.

The whole of Annex A from that document is an eye-opener.

Also the glossary has loads of terms which include the word gender, but it does not define 'gender', as is usual for this type of document. It all seems very familiar.

The definitions and terms presented in this glossary are taken from the Government Equalities Office ‘Providing services for transgender customers’, Gendered Intelligence ‘Trans Awareness’ and the Women and Equalities Select Committee Inquiry into Transgender Equality report.

"Consistent use of gendered spaces".

So actually trans people are told they HAVE TO use faciltiies for women& girls.

Interesting.

I am also boggled at all that.

Are women in prison given fancy clothes, expensive makeup and padded bras if they ask for them?

My guess is NO.

Wigs are expensive too.

It's all a bit

If it makes people feel better then that's fine but I just wonder whether all the non trans men and women in prison are also given expensive things to make them feel better.

I'm all in favour of prison being for violent / dangerous etc people only and for non violent criminals to be handled elsewhere.

Also there needs to be serious action around mental health support and the levels of violence.

There's a lot of things to do - prisons reform trust I think it is do a lot of studies which are interesting to read.

Ideally you want everyone in prison to be safe - putting men at risk of violence in with the women is a poor idea (and why shouldn't gay men / weedy men / men who are "pretty" etc be afforded the same treatment?).

Exactly. In fact, sex offenders are at huge risk of being attacked in prison. I know- let’s put them in with female prisoners to protect them. Maybe to the same with terrorists and serial killers. I believe Ian Huntley and the Yorkshire Ripper were pretty savagely attacked when they were first jailed. I mean with Ian, it sounds like that’s where we’re heading anyway.

Yes that's true.

Child sex offenders especially.

There are babies & small children in women's prisons - presumably one can "identify" as being not just a woman but a pregnant one these days?

I mean to get in the area where the children are

I dont' know if the women in teh mother & baby units are allowed to mix with their kids with teh general population at all. It might be pretty lonely if not. Maybe to dangerous to do it though.

Risk of pregnancy is surely the one that will stop this? No-one wants female inmates getting pregnant. Someone said they'll probably just have compulsory long acting birth control (note: side effects non trivial for lots of women) and let the penis-bearers have at it.

Although the fact they did something about the recent case wheere 4 women were assaulted does give me hope that they have some concern for teh women at least.

of course our activist friends immediately decided all 4 women were lying - the whole thing is MRA hiding in plain sight (not hiding very well either! It's so fucking obvious).

Someone said they'll probably just have compulsory long acting birth control (note: side effects non trivial for lots of women) and let the penis-bearers have at it.

That's not going to happen though (because it breaks about a billion existing laws) and I'm not really sure why it keeps being mooted...

Hooray, James Kirkup has written a piece in the Spectator pulling the BBC article apart.

James Kirkup, 'Is the BBC scared of the transgender debate?'

(extract)
"Just for good measure, Reality Check (a supposedly objective fact-check) chucks in a bit of commentary from Jane Fae, a “transgender journalist and campaigner” making the wholly subjective assertion that the public will “misinterpret” those official figures and that “the fall-out in terms of violence and abuse will, in some cases, be significant.” Perhaps that is a valid case to argue, but it is not one that belongs in a Reality Check piece.

In truth, the public is in little danger of misinterpreting those figures, or even of knowing about them, because the BBC did its best to bury them. While most Reality Check pieces are featured on the homepage of BBC News, this one was not apparently placed there at any point. BBC News has made little effort to publicise what might reasonably be considered newsworthy information about a matter of public interest.

The overall impression given is that someone at the BBC set out with the hope of debunking that Fair Play for Women calculation, but uncovered evidence suggesting that calculation was perfectly reasonable, then made significant efforts to avoid saying so or telling anyone that, yes, a lot of male-born offenders who identify themselves as women are in jail for sexual crimes, including crimes committed against women." (extract)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/is-the-bbc-scared-of-the-transgender-debate/

The BBC Reality Check twitter account still hasn't tweeted its trans prisoners article. This was a newsworthy story in the public interest, which BBC journalists uncovered through FOIs.

The twitter account has however most recently tweeted FOUR times about articles about public toilets in the space of 12 hours.

So they were just pandering to TRAs and virtue signalling but don't want people to see the crimes these males are in for maybe? Interesting.