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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans councillor leaves roles after 'threats to life'

375 replies

Bespin · 11/08/2018 05:09

I'm not one for posting threads on here but I feel this is quite a sad position for this person and shows how hard it is to maintain a professional stance on this when you are receiving threats and abuse at the levels that are currently happening on the Internet, in no way am I saying this is gender critical people. But this debate as now got to such a level that it is starting to cost people there livelihoods on both sides of this so called debate.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-tayside-central-45151228

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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R0wantrees · 11/08/2018 10:57

Recent 'late night discoursing' by Eden Ladley (NUS officer LGBT+ (women's place) officer on being non-binary.

She explains she does not identify in this way. (preferred pronouns she /her, xe/xem)

(extract)
"If we see non-binary being used in this way, then it makes more sense as a diacritic identity. It gives away certain things, but it obscures one's exact relationship to the gender binary

I personally dislike non-binary as a term. I don't think it is helpful in trans spaces in describing one's relationship to gender, the gender binary and different forms of gendered oppression.

Lots of non-binary people think that being non-binary means they don't benefit from structural gendered oppression, which is false. Non-binary people can benefit from misogyny, transmisogyny and colonial binarism

The last one is especially important, as the gender binary is inherently linked with whiteness and colonialism. There's a reason why the gendered experiences of white non-binary people are more accepted while non-binary Indigenous people continue to experience genocide globally" (continues)

twitter.com/ladleye/status/1025196531136299008

TheBatPig · 11/08/2018 11:00

And I also notice that his apology centred on making themselves and their employers look bad. No acknowledgment that someone who is capable of such views on women and of using such insults publically, probably isn't suited to such a role

RJnomore1 · 11/08/2018 11:00

Roaster is not an incel insult.

It's a good old generic scots insult for - well - roasters. People who make shows of themselves and are just not embarrassed at all by it.

I refuse to lose the word roaster to this shite.

R0wantrees · 11/08/2018 11:02

Any elected official who claims victim status but opposes 50:50 representation of men and women on public bodies is a misogynist sociopath.

Fairplay for Women report March 2018:
'Like A Thief In The Night: The Scottish Bill That Stole The Word Woman'
(extract)
"Last year while we were all looking the other way and distracted by the UK government’s proposals to reform the Gender Recognition Act the word woman was stolen from us. It was sneakily done by the Scottish parliament and hidden behind a smoke screen. That smoke screen was The Gender Representation on Public Boards Bill.

The Bill introduced the ‘gender representation objective’ – a target that women should make up 50% of non-executive board membership.

The purpose of this bill was admirable. It was to help women overcome the institutional sexism we suffer due to our sex. Positive action to redress the imbalances that have arisen from centuries of historical disadvantage. It was to acknowledge the reality that institutionalised inequality and sexist attitudes stop most women from reaching their full potential in public life. Financial barriers, income inequality, the gender pay gap, sexist attitudes, gender stereotyping, women’s disproportionate share of caring responsibilities, the undervaluing of women’s paid work, and media portrayals of women, to name but a few influences, all play a role in the sexism that prevents a fair number of women being involved in public life.

But in a cruel twist of irony it was also to be the perfect trojan horse to steal the very meaning of the words woman and female from us." (continues)

"They have replaced that linguistic mouthful ‘for the purpose of reassigning the person’s sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex‘ to the simple and easy to remember phrase ‘becoming female’.

No longer is that definition a reference to a ‘transsexual person’ but now as if by magic it’s a reference to ‘a woman’. Who was consulted about this? Who agreed to this change? How dare they wipe away the meaning of a word without our informed consent?

‘Woman’ is now to include men who ‘become female‘. No definition of how though. Not surgery that’s for sure. No medical supervision required. No diagnosis of gender dysphoria. To wish it is to become it. To speak it is to become it.

This definition is so broad that it can include anyone." (continues)

fairplayforwomen.com/scottish_stole_woman/

Cartertheunstoppablesexmachine · 11/08/2018 11:04

This individual is quite a piece of work, as are their sympathisers.

But the brainwashed council and the BBC should also be held to account for being chicken shit and gullible.

I also wonder what the Scouts are thinking.

CardsforKittens · 11/08/2018 11:08

I'm inclined to be sympathetic to the difficulties faced by trans people in the pubic eye, especially in politics. It must be quite stressful to experience hostility from random strangers who know who you are and don't like your party / your policies / your identity.

However, my sympathy evaporates the minute I hear misogynistic abuse. It is competely unacceptable and there is no excuse for it.

I also think it is unwise to defend anyone who behaves like this. Not sure what response the OP was hoping for but I'm unable to summon any regrets about Murray's resignation.

NotBuiltForThisWorld · 11/08/2018 11:08

RJnomore1 yup, I concede - my DP just pointed this out to me.

Charliethefeminist · 11/08/2018 11:09

Jfc I suggest keeping at the top of mumsnet feminism, a thread showcasing trans victimhood

TimeLady · 11/08/2018 11:16

Murray's comments on Reddit

www.reddit.com/user/grogipher

BarrackerBarmer · 11/08/2018 11:18

#Braveandstunning

Move over Monroe, India and Paris, this charmer is the new face of the Trans struggle. Time to hand over the tiara.

AltogetherAndrews · 11/08/2018 11:20

in Scotland, that’s really not what is meant by roaster, I think what was said was awful enough without tenuous links to incels, when it’s a really common Scottish insult. The argument that he is an awful human being needs no embellishment.

R0wantrees · 11/08/2018 11:23

TimeLady

Is this confirmed Gregor Murray? The comments seem very recent and surprising given the current situation.

TimeLady · 11/08/2018 11:25

Report in the Telegraph

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/11/scotlands-openly-trans-councillor-quits-frontline-politics-abuse/

(...with a photo)

Charliethefeminist · 11/08/2018 11:27

The one who says cunts.

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 11/08/2018 11:28

He says that he is non-binary because he wants to sometimes:
Wear nail varnish [which can be purchased by men and women if I remember correctly]
To spend an afternoon doing manipedis [whatever the fuck that is.] [manipedis autocorrects to manipulates - lol]
Watch a chick flick [aka a film].
To sometimes wear clothes from the women's aisle. [presumably the sparkley wellies].

Dude. You can do all that. As a man. Men have done all that since forever. Think: David Bowie. Simples.

Does not make you non-binary otherwise the whole-fucking-planet would be non-fucking-binary.

R0wantrees · 11/08/2018 11:28

it’s a really common Scottish insult. The argument that he is an awful human being needs no embellishment.

Thanks for the further explanation.

I hadn't been aware of either usage.

I suppose there may be a question to ask if a Scots public official was also aware of the incel term of abuse and then went on to use it, specifically against women.

There's so much else that Murray needs to be held to account for though.

littlbrowndog · 11/08/2018 11:28

The person isn’t trans

The person identifies as trans

Feck knows what that means but that is what th3 person says about the persons self

Identifies as trans

R0wantrees · 11/08/2018 11:30

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas

I'm not sure about this current Reddit thread. It may not be as it suggests.

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 11/08/2018 11:32

I'm not sure about this current Reddit thread. It may not be as it suggests.

Happy to be corrected, as that would take it back to just the sparkley wellies.

NotMeOhNo · 11/08/2018 11:34

This person has found out how to claim A-Grade oppression points without "embarrassing" oneself by putting on a frock. Woohoo, thank you Stonewall for your wide, welcoming umbrella! They is winning the victim Olympics!

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 11/08/2018 11:37

I love an action adventure film, i love a bit of pruning trees with my large range of tools, I have hairy legs

I MUST BE NON_BINARY. WHOOP. ALL THE VICTIM STATUS IS MINE.

Oh, and I am female, but nobody gives a shite about that eh?

LaSquirrel · 11/08/2018 11:38

Bespin's latest round of comments make no sense at all. A failed attempt at deflection perhaps?

Man up, admit you backed the wrong 'poor oppressed trans', who wasn't even trans, was some self-ID'd 'non-binary' beardy privileged white dude with a huge misogyny/lesbian problem.

You forget that the women here do background research, and tend to have good memories of dudes who vomit misogyny all over the place.

R0wantrees · 11/08/2018 11:39

10/8/18 Cllr Gregor Murray twitter comment:

"This year has not been easy for me, and it is with a heavy heart that I am going to have to take a step back from frontline politics."

twitter.com/grogipher/status/1027908217232392192

Full copy of resignation letter as linked in tweet:
www.facebook.com/1549765535261663/posts/2121515251420019/

Trans councillor leaves roles after 'threats to life'
R0wantrees · 11/08/2018 11:43

Happy to be corrected, as that would take it back to just the sparkley wellies

I am wondering about the wellies-as-identifiers. I wear what might (by some) be described as 'masculine wellie-type'. They are a dark khaki colour. Very comfortable with insulated soles which is great for long dog walks in winter.

I'm now questioning the significance of these....

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 11/08/2018 11:45

Bespin's latest round of comments make no sense at all.

I think we can sum them up as 'oh fuck, I now see what I did there. Anyway where is my phone charger, does this boat need mooring, does that cake need icing?'

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