Channel 4 appoints a new advisor on inclusion

[BarrackerBarmer]

www.channel4.com/info/press/news/channel-4-appoints-sue-pascoe-as-advisor-on-inclusion-x

Sue Pascoe, who 4 years ago was Graham, and who said "that while a man, he was the embodiment of the all-action, red-bloodied alpha male."
Of course, by 2015, this evolved to "'It's funny, I'm 55, I am very hormonal, I am going through puberty again which means that I am just getting to my teenage girl years - so watch out world."

Perhaps those teenage girl years have been outgrown now that Pascoe is 58. Here's hoping.

I'm not convinced this will result in a better proportion of those of us who are female being represented though.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3163747/Master-Hunt-woman-age-54-marks-day-man-going-bowling-enjoying-burger-sons.html

Wouldn't it be nice if some of the recent 'inclusivity' appointments actually included women? By which I mean, the old fashioned ACTUALLY underrepresented, female type human.

*People are watching this thread because of the AGP subject.

Because, despite all the words that Sue has used about surgery, none of them are relating to their penis. The general public expect transwomen to have had penis surgery - a surgical 'sex change'. The fact that they don't, is quite shocking for them.*

Thanks for clarifying. Whilst I understand why a person would be hesitant in having genital surgery, I really care about who has a penis when it comes to sharing spaces where I will be vulnerable. It always dismays me when people with power mock or dismiss concerns like this. I have experienced rape and spend my life dealing with the consequences - of course I care about whether somebody has a dick! Are we to pretend we don't know that women are raped by people with penises? That is as logical as the American pro gun lobby.

Well it's all come full circle hasn't it.
Years ago, all the top positions were held by white middle-aged men.
They were pushed into increasing diversity so a few women were appointed and broader ethnicity was promoted.
That lead to some to shout "tokenism!" and complain that the best men were missing out on the top jobs.
Now the positions can be given back to the men who have transitioned into the new protected minority of transwomen.
I don't think they have any understanding of diversity.

The teenage girl comment is particularly offensive. What a middle-aged transwoman would know about going through puberty as a girl is beyond me.

Wasn't life much simpler when balding middle aged men bought a sports car when they had a mid-life crisis, rather than deciding that they were actually a brave and stunning girl?

My Dad bought a drum kit. We rolled our eyes at the time, but it could have been so much worse... his drumming days lasted a few months

I am sick to death of these brave stunners and their offensive fucking nonsense.

(What I said earlier, but edited for acceptability.)

So Sue Pascoe is an approved Tory party candidate, and a Tory party member under an LGBT banner- there is then nothing ‘past’ at all about Sue’s trans identity ?: www.lgbtconservatives.org.uk/people/sue-pascoe

So that channel 4 statement is just nonsense :
Sue is a woman with a trans past.

^ That description would apply to a female person who had in the past but now no longer, identified themselves as a trans man. That isn’t Sue’s situation.

Sue says Sue is coming into her ‘teenage girl years’ due to hormones- ‘Watch out world.’ etc. Oh please.

No male bodied person can EVER understand what being a teenage girl is like. It really isn’t all hormones and sexy fun Sue.

We should be VERY suspect of anyone that claims to be coming into their teenage girl years UNLESS they ARE actually a teenage girl.

Why didn’t C4 appoint a teenage girl?

This appointment is the OPPOSITE of diversity it’s brazenly entrenching

• sexism (stereotypes of what men and women can be like, look like, behave like)
• ageism (ageism directed at teenagers- by pornifying and trivialising the representation of their lives ‘watch out world!’ And reducing teenagers to their hormones based on their age- hormones which drive your behaviour uncontrollably according to this reductive stereotype ).
• tokenism
• appropriation of the lives of others and their experiences and identity
• appropriation of the struggles of others
• appropriation of the scarce opportunities available to others to speak about and act against the actual discrimination they face (based on their protected characteristics inherent to them by birth and not of their choosing or within their control .. (by taking up a ‘diversity’ role when you are a person with privilege, access, social capital, resources, wealth and power such that those facing discrimination and marginalisation could only dream of.)

When did encouraging ‘diversity’ in the workplace become about propping up a fetish?

What challenges has Sue ever faced in Sue’s previous professional and personal life as a high flying business man?
What challenges does Sue face now while Sue is busy advising C4 and hoping to get elected as a Tory MP?

What challenges has Sue ever faced in Sue’s previous professional and personal life as a high flying business man?
What challenges does Sue face now while Sue is busy advising C4 and hoping to get elected as a Tory MP?

This is the insidious and deceitful nature of transactivism. Men with genuine gender dysphoria are few and far between. And would have faced personal challenges. Their mental health would benefit from social inclusion, accommodation and understanding.

AGP individuals appropriate both them and women. It's a master stroke of sleight of hand.

They use the suicide stats and minority disadvantage that simply don't apply to them. Leveraging someone else's damage for their own gain. The manipulation is breathtaking.

So that channel 4 statement is just nonsense :
Sue is a woman with a trans past

This is how Sue Pacoe likes to describe herself- she's spoken about it previously, possibly on the SkyNews interview.

Its not dissimilar to Emily Brothers description of herself as a "a woman with trans experience"
Back in March, Lucy Masood was interviewed on R4 Today program with Emily Brothers.

When Emily used this description in the opening answer, it seemed to rather throw Lucy & she said something like, "Im not even sure what that means"
(link to interview in final post)[www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3200310-Radio-4-now?pg=10

This comment was then misunderstood / taken out of context / misquoted / manipulated (?) in an opinion piece in The Independent by Yas Necati:

'Lucy Masoud – let me tell you what it feels like to use a changing room as a transgender person.
Masoud, the Fire Brigade’s LGBT union representative, not only insulted trans people on the Today programme, but also undermined her role. Her job is to stand up for workers, particularly those who are most vulnerable to being abused'

(extract)
"The Fire Brigades Union’s LGBT representative Lucy Masoud’s comments on the Today Programme this morning were not only upsetting, but showed a deep misunderstanding of the experience of being transgender, which she admitted herself – “I’m not even sure what that means.” (continues)

the audio clip of the interview embedded in the article also starts just after Emily Brothers' comment about being "a woman with trans experience"!

www.independent.co.uk/voices/lucy-masoud-fbu-lgbt-trans-london-fire-brigade-union-today-transphobic-a8267096.html

what datun said. It so good I'm going to repeat it even though it makes me furious:

Men with genuine gender dysphoria are few and far between. And would have faced personal challenges. Their mental health would benefit from social inclusion, accommodation and understanding

AGP individuals appropriate both them and women. It's a master stroke of sleight of hand

They use the suicide stats and minority disadvantage that simply don't apply to them. Leveraging someone else's damage for their own gain. The manipulation is breathtaking

The individual reports having undergone full srs as well as facial surgery.

OK. So the goalposts have changed AGAIN. - you can’t now reasonably call a trans person a ‘trans’ person ( ‘transwoman’ is already no longer deemed acceptable but ‘trans women’ was acceptable because it described a category of woman )

But it seems now you can only say ‘woman’ (‘with a trans past’) ... to explain the visual or aural or general incongruity of using the category descriptor of ‘woman’ with the male- bodied person in front of you. It’s forcing people to lie. That’s not OK.

This is straight up and appropriative gaslighting. Changing the terms constantly of what is acceptable speech and language and of what will apparently cause offence.. all the while increasingly encroaching and erasing on someone else’s reality.

Just absolutely no.

you've got to mention trans otherwise you've just got a rich white woman as an inclusion advisor

but how do you square that with the fact that Sue is definitely a stunning and brave woman due to TWAW?

bingo - "trans past"

it's an abortion of a phrase that is actively misleading, but when has that ever stopped these people?

That's why it's a mistake to say any word with "woman" in at all.

I'm beginning to agree with you Eresh

I've never minded calling transwomen transwomen

I've worked with several and while I've always been uncomfortable about the reasoning behind their decision, I've cheerfully shared toilets, respected pronouns, and indeed squashed proto-bullying or ridicule when it reared its head (always among male colleagues).

But I'm beginning to feel that any acknowledgement including the word "woman" ends up with someone's tanks on my lawn.

you've got to mention trans otherwise you've just got a rich white woman as an inclusion advisor

Exactly. It's the trans part that's the golden ticket to everything.

The teenage girl comment is spectacularly offensive. As most teens are still children.

I hsve a teensfr daughter. She wears bsggy tops and is certainly not shouting "look out world'.

Don't channel 4 see hoe offensive this is to teens snf parents of teens?

Channel 4 has a teenage audience for some stuff- like made in Chelsea. If they were asked about their representation at C4 .. Would they nominate Sue to do it? Would they feel respresented by Sue’s experience of teenage girlhood?

Come to that.. how many trans people (whether male OR female-bodied.. ) are former city management consultants and Tory party candidates?

Sky News interview, Sue Pascoe asserted being female:

" Now I am now legally female so I have a female birth certificate. I would be buried as as a female and God forbid if I ever got into prison I would go to a woman's prison"

(I will be buried as a female and if I had the see Shon Faye's tweet upthread and Sarah Brown's assertion.

But I'm beginning to feel that any acknowledgement including the word "woman" ends up with someone's tanks on my lawn.

Indeed!

People can advise on inclusion issues on the things that they have expereince of, and can bring voices of those with other issues.

I’m my view, this could use some unpacking.

‘Lived experience’ doesn’t necessarily result in an understanding that is applicable more broadly to the experiences of others, or the ability to dispassionately analyse - so to effectively ‘advise’ - or even much empathy.

In some cases ‘experience’ of one form of exclusion seems all-consuming, blinding individuals to anything but that form; in others, the ‘experience’ is not really representative of the experience of the group in general.

‘D&I advisor’ is a worthy idea but I think it throws up more issues than it could hope to fix, certainly in the context of the ID politics mess.

I've heard that those transitioning might think of it like teens who are experimenting with clothes and make up. But those who are transitioning have probably had years of experimenting with clothes and make up.

The hormonal changes for teenage girls are sometimes very unwelcome and unexpected. I told my dd about periods etc. But I didn't really prepare her, I never had physical sickness, vomiting, with my periods but my daughter does.

Those transitioning want to change, expect it, i hope are prepared, so it's very different from teenage girls.

Is it Sue Pascoe in that video who says to women that it's not their fight?