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Original poster

People apparently support trans

568 replies

Janni01 · 05/08/2018 17:56

Don't know if these has been discussed, but was watching a soy documentary on the fight between trans and feminists and it actually said 72% of females support transwomen using female facilities and services and 65% of men support transmen using male services and facilities.

Anyone have any clue why so many seem to support this?

OP posts:
LighthouseSouth · 05/08/2018 23:31

@Turph

but it's not a counter argument because the gents have urinals.

I don't want men in the women's bathrooms to be clear - I'm just saying what will be said by those who don't equate them.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 05/08/2018 23:46

Is the suggestion that many women are keen to see random men's flaccid penises while they are pissing out of them backed up by anything?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 05/08/2018 23:46

We never have split facilities on the basis of gender identity. It's sex. As such transwomen belong in the gents, transmen in the ladies. Choosing to segregate by gender makes no sense. Where would people who (like me) don't have a gender identity go?

thebewilderness · 05/08/2018 23:46

A number of establishments have maintained the privacy and dignity of men's loos while making the women's loo mixed sex.

They should have to mansplain why they did it that way instead of the other way round.

Turph · 05/08/2018 23:49

thebewilderness agreed.
As for urinals, men's toilets also have cubicles. Normally fewer than in the women's toilets but they're there. So feasibly you could use the men's as a unisex toilet.

thebewilderness · 05/08/2018 23:51

"Replacing sex with gender is like replacing modern medicine with prayer."
Doing it to yourself is bad. Doing it to someone else is inexcusable.

Twunk · 05/08/2018 23:53

I enjoyed an evening out recently at a bar in the Netherlands. There were 2 sets of toilets - one was unisex, the other was women’s. Most women went to the ladies tbh.

LighthouseSouth · 05/08/2018 23:54

"Is the suggestion that many women are keen to see random men's flaccid penises while they are pissing out of them backed up by anything?"

not that I know of. I'm just guessing as a man that would be the first thing you'd say if women were allowed access to a toilet with cubicles and urinals - and you were objecting.

Unless they do away with the urinals, surely that's the first objection men would make?

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 05/08/2018 23:57

I just had a talk with my young cousins (16 female, 12 male).

They seemed to only agree with transpeople idwntifying as female using the femalevtoulets if they received some kind of ID card that certified they had gone through some kind of treatments for 5+ years (aka no self ID and only those who truly believe they want to appear female).

I can't say I don't see their logic as they also agreed that it would be uncomfortable for women to see male genitals especially if they have been a victim of abuse.

I'm glad to see young people aren't all anti or pro and are using their brains to get engaged.

Turph · 06/08/2018 00:00

The objections.could be turned back on themselves: worried your willy might be seen? A: own your prejudice or B: use a cubicle to pee.
Embarrassed? See answers A and B.
I can't see men arguing they're at physical risk from women. Perhaps MRAs might feel at risk of "false rape accusations". Again it highlights legitimate concerns women have, so is useful. The fact that it complies with the law and is not discriminatory helps too.

starzig · 06/08/2018 00:08

Really don't see why I WOULD have an issue. We are all just going there for a pee at the end of the day. There is already a lot of neutral facilities that have been like that for decades without batting an eyelid. Used 1 this morning in a small cafe.

starzig · 06/08/2018 00:15

Turph - we had that situation in a local pub recently. A girl was violently ill in the ladies and only one girl on the bar so we had to use the men's until more staff came in an hour later. Didn't bother me. If I need to go I am going.

ScreamLikeYouMeanIt · 06/08/2018 00:41

Incidently I've just shown a picture of jess bradley to my DH who immediately said in shock "I know him from , he's that guy who once made out with my ear and wouldn't stop sticking his tongue down it when I asked him to stop". My DH often a mentions this incident and its clear he didn't like it and has stuck with him. He had now idea jess bradley had transitioned by self ID ing but was not surprised. Adds quite a bit of weight behind what I think we could be dealing with in self IDing transgender people....

Datun · 06/08/2018 07:28

"Is the suggestion that many women are keen to see random men's flaccid penises while they are pissing out of them backed up by anything?"

not that I know of. I'm just guessing as a man that would be the first thing you'd say if women were allowed access to a toilet with cubicles and urinals - and you were objecting.

Unless they do away with the urinals, surely that's the first objection men would make?

Whilst I completely agree that this is what would happen, it does rather prove our point.

Asking men exactly why they would be uncomfortable would reveal the identical reasoning of privacy, dignity, feeling of vulnerability, etc. Except they have even less reason as women don't pose a risk.

Babdoc · 06/08/2018 07:41

The point that many women don’t realise when saying they’re happy with self ID trans people in women’s toilets and changing rooms is this:
Self ID gives every rapist, flasher, voyeur and paedophile a free pass to enter female only spaces where vulnerable girls, teens and women are potentially alone and in a state of undress.
These men do not have to be “trans” at all, merely self claim to be. They can leer, ogle, expose themselves- and if the woman calls the police SHE will be arrested for “transphobic hate crime”.
Now do you see why we need spaces separated by physical sex, not some nebulous “gender identity” nonsense?

Betsvigi9 · 06/08/2018 08:58

Most women I speak to think transgender means post operative transsexuals and they are quite supportive. Once I point out that 80% plus of trans women have fully functioning penises they very quickly change their minds. Unfortunately this issue is passing most people by, they don't even think about it which is exactly what the TRAs want. We need to fighting.

starzig · 06/08/2018 09:04

I'm sure if someone was of malicious intent, they would not be worrying about the sign above the toilet.

Ucantarguewistupid · 06/08/2018 09:06

No idea ifnthat one report is true or indeed any such reports are.

But as probably already mentioned.

Many do not realise what is going on or the implications of the current trend.

Many are also scared to speak out. When I first made clear some of my concerns I most definitely lost a friend. Felt ganged up by another - who I think actually agreed with me.....

Men aren't bothered by trans men. I should think that's because they don't face the same risks as women do. I can't see how they would be as concerned at a biological female in their space or competing against them.

Would be more interesting to see how gay men feel about being told they must have sex with a male vagina or be called transphobic.....

ScreamLikeYouMeanIt · 06/08/2018 09:08

Thanks R0wantrees I've moved it across there. I'm still very new to learning more about transactivism from a feminist standpoint and previously I would have had no question answering positively to that question. However like many have said, I did assume it would be majority fully converted transsexual or those in the process of doing so. Now that I realise this is a small part of it and that it opens itself upto any tom, dick and harry who are self-IDing, I am more more unsure of where I stand.

Ucantarguewistupid · 06/08/2018 09:08

True starzig. But why make it easier for them to cross a boundary, why make it impossible for them to be challenged. And aside from which many women want their own private space for changing etc because they just don't feel comfortable around male bodies, for whatever reason. Why should their trauma be considered less than trans trauma?

FloralBunting · 06/08/2018 09:08

starzig, I'm sure if someone had malicious intent, the sign above the toilet would be very useful to indicate which toilet they would find their preferred victim in. If they were allowed to go in unchallenged, so much the better, eh?

AngryAttackKittens · 06/08/2018 09:14

I notice that Pinky has added "old" to the list of characteristics that people are likely to object to someone sharing spaces with them having. Sam whatever who wrote the ridiculous article wherein the children were scolded for not wanting to call the person they'd formerly known as their father their mother also mentioned elderly women (along with disabled women) as apparently being likely to inspire horror in other women in shared changing rooms etc.

Personally I can't think of anyone who would seem less threatening than an elderly woman, other than perhaps a small child. It's interesting that this seems to be part of the new TRAs attempt to frame objections to penises in women's spaces as unreasonable.

R0wantrees · 06/08/2018 09:23

ScreamLikeYouMeanIt

A lot of people have found this thread useful when wanting to understand more and the wider consequences etc:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

CassieBrighter · 06/08/2018 09:34

I'm thinking people support trans women because it is the decent thing to do?