People apparently support trans

[Janni01]

Don't know if these has been discussed, but was watching a soy documentary on the fight between trans and feminists and it actually said 72% of females support transwomen using female facilities and services and 65% of men support transmen using male services and facilities.

Anyone have any clue why so many seem to support this?

Oh yes Taco missed that sorry. Agree just dismissing something with no reasoning not helpful.

Just like 90% of all women see results of a new wrinkle cream with a sample size of 20 people.

The public aren't given the facts.
They are unaware of who is actually taking shelter under that huge trans umbrella.
They don't see the push to "educate" our kids and ignoring of all safeguarding.

The percentages are also a combined total of two responses to the questions: 'View of transgender people using public toilets'

How comfortable would feel for transgender woman to use a female toilet (asked of women only)
How comfortable would feel for a transgender man to use a male toilet (asked of men only)

Very comfortable F:47 M: 41
Quite comfortable F:25 M: 24

www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39147/bsa34_moral_issues_final.pdf

1. People don't realise that trans no longer just means transexuals

2. People haven't stopped to think about what it means if there are no more sex segregated spaces.

People I have spoken to have not really thought through the issues.
They just want to retain their nice inclusive lefty image and haven't thought about the real life implications. When I talk to them about real situations that are really happening they go 'Oh. ah' and don't have a response.

As others have said, I think a lot of people still think 'trans women' means the old school transsexuals who've been quietly sharing toilets for years, have had surgery and who have been at risk historically for mostly homophobic type violence.
They're definitely not thinking of the male-bodied person I saw recently who was quite happy with their male body, genitals and appearance and made no attempt to do any kind of transition other than to quite seriously call themselves a 'butch lesbian'.
It doesnt occur to people that someone would do that because it sounds bonkers

I have no problem with legitimate fully trans people using the facilities of their chosen gender. However I believe these people are few and far between and I DO have a problem with self ID and the fact people will be allowed to chop and change as they please.

I’m one of them. I have zero issue with any person using whatever toilet they wish regardless of their genitals.

I’m not “unaware” or misinformed and won’t be changing my mind regardless of “a fully functioning penis”.

I really dislike the thinking that women can only be in support because they are silly, ignorant and misinformed, some women (the majority if you go by this poll) just don’t agree with your view.

Pinky but do you also believe that women do not have the right to object to someone with a penis using the same changing room or toilet as them? Just checking because the point is that the interests of trans women in wanting to use female facilities directly conflict with women’s rights to single sex spaces.

Oh it's about toilets. Well that's very different to other facilities like changing rooms.

This is a consent issue. Those who want single sex loos should have that option.

Those who are happy with mixed sex can use mixed sex but not fair to say others have to just because you are OK with it.

Making men's loos mixed sex but leaving female as single sex would be an option.

Pinky some people are fine with penises in female loos but the vast majority of people surveyed won't know that was what was really being asked. That was the wider point being made.

Agree Wanderabout. Have mixed sex facilities but respect the right of women to want to keep some same sex spaces. Some spaces must be single sex, like prisons but nothing wrong with a designated trans wing.

It’s like with Brexit, innit. It sounds like fun to start with but when it’s too late then people will be like: “what? No, I didn’t vite for this! I thought I was voting for something else!”

PEAK no I don’t believe anyone should have the right to deny access to a person based on a protected characteristic, as much as I don’t believe people should object to someone who is gay, poc, disabled, old from using facilities based on their own personal preference.

• I’m one of them. I have zero issue with any person using whatever toilet they wish regardless of their genitals.

Personally I'm not too bothered. But then, I'm a quietly assertive person who has never been subject to abuse from males. Knowing that unfortunately this is not the case for so many other women and girls, I'm of the opinion that my own comfort levels are completely irrelevant. What matters is protecting those who need protection.

Like all surveys, you can get whatever answer you want by the careful selection or omission of words.
Did all the respondents understand what was meant by 'transwomen' ?

I’m one of them. I have zero issue with any person using whatever toilet they wish regardless of their genitals.

Yep this totally. Its not i dont understand the debate, i simply dont agree. Most Single sex spaces are not a hard won right for women, they were something enforced on woman by a patriarchal society. Im totally at a loss why we are so desperate to hang onto them.

Except with regard to refuges. But they are getting lost in the ridiculous argument of toilets

But sex is a protected characteristic too

WANDER so the women asked are stupid? Are they ignorant of a widely known and spoken about topic?

It’s very arrogant to assume that a person must be less knowledgeable than you simply because they hold an opinion at odds with your own.

I think most do support transgender people using their preferred facility.

It's self id and the implications of it that people disagree with. Let's face it transsexuals are already using women's facility's and have been discreetly for years.

Plus as other have said, people are envisioning someone that has had some sort of medical transition. If you asked the same women would you mind cross dressers and men with fetishes using your facility's would you mind, the answer will likey be different.

That was to pinky u

It's not just about toilets Pinky. It's about services for female survivors of sexual abuse, women's shelters, its about women's prisons, which house many women who have already been victims of male violence. There is a case in Toronto at the moment where a female rape survivor at an women's only addiction clinic was made to share a small bed room (beds only feet apart) with a transwoman (who was very much visibly male, facial hair and chest hair, and spoke openly about women he found 'hot' woman). This gave the women flashbacks to when she was raped. its not just about what you feel comfortable with. it is what other women, who have had different life courses from you, feel comfortable with. its about the fact that women should not be told they have to 'put up and shut up' to preserve the feelings of others at the expense of themselves.

Wasn't this the Sky 'research' run on twitter and pounced on by the TRAs once it started to go 'the wrong way'?

What do you think about it all janni

its quite an interesting thread to start without having an opinion yourself

Most Single sex spaces are not a hard won right for women, they were something enforced on woman by a patriarchal society. Im totally at a loss why we are so desperate to hang onto them.

Have you got the evidence for your research?

I thought refuges were set up by women, and toilets were as a result of campaigns by women?