Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jess Bradley, suspended - Part II

999 replies

LaSquirrel · 30/07/2018 14:00

I thought I would kick off a part II
Part I is here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
vagender · 03/08/2018 00:12

OK, figured out how to read it, got as far as "validate the transable experience", closed it.
What I got from that page is that 1) BIID is still a psychological disorder, 2) "apotemnophilia" is an actual thing, maybe an extreme form of masochism related to some form of trauma? Or a separate paraphilia that just happens to have masochistic elements. Either way, not exactly healthy.
3) I just read "pass as disabled" and want to bleach my brain.

BettyDuMonde · 03/08/2018 00:13

Well, that’s 2 more orgs supposedly founded by JB to run through the companies house website tomorrow!

I’d do it now but chapter 7 has seemingly cured my usually rampant insomnia...

silentcrow · 03/08/2018 00:15

vagender yes, sorry - you can either use the search box near the top, or click the tags below.

Hopefully this is a link to that breakdown on p150: books.google.co.uk/books?id=pgUKDQAAQBAJ&q=transable+individuals&source=gbs_word_cloud_r&cad=4#v=snippet&q=transable%20individuals&f=false

Apotemnophilia is the sexual attraction to being an amputee. Acrotomophilia is the sexual attraction to amputees.

I can't believe I'm typing this but...I wonder if the amputation must only be an arm or leg in these cases, or could it extend to other healthy organs? Is there some kind of common ground to these paraphilias? Autogynophilia and apotemnophilia could be in the same mental ballpark?

vagender · 03/08/2018 00:20

silentcrow

Bang on the money

"K. Freund and R. Blanchard (1993) proposed that nonhomosexual MtF transsexualism represents an erotic target location error, in which men whose preferred erotic targets are women also eroticize their own feminized bodies. Desire for limb amputation may also reflect an erotic target location error, occurring in combination with an unusual erotic target preference for amputees. This model predicts that persons who desire limb amputation would almost always be attracted to amputees and would display an increased prevalence of gender identity problems, both of which have been observed."

thebewilderness · 03/08/2018 00:20

In one novel of her detective series Jo Rowling included the issue of transabled people. Her protagonist is an amputee and he got the rage over it. Career of Evil is the name of the novel. 3rd book in the series. All quite good if you like a mystery.

thebewilderness · 03/08/2018 00:22

I am the derail monster today.

vagender · 03/08/2018 00:27

Please derail, I just saw a paper on autopedophilia.

silentcrow · 03/08/2018 00:28

vagender no flippin' way! Guess all that time at uni learning to connect the dots wasn't wasted after all Grin actually looking at the publication date I may even have seen that paper and bleached it out of my brain forgotten. However did you dig that one up?

thebewilderness damnit, another book for the pile Grin

BettyDuMonde · 03/08/2018 00:28

Damn. That’ll teach me to refresh one last time before I go to sleep.

Nightmares guaranteed.

silentcrow · 03/08/2018 00:29

Please derail, I just saw a paper on autopedophilia.

Maybe that's why JB's birth date keeps changing.

Now I'm going to throw up.

vagender · 03/08/2018 00:33

silentcrow

I dug that up the way my psychology degree taught me... By putting "autogynephilia apotemnophilia" into Google Scholar and clicking the first link Grin. But yeah, both of them seem to be the result of "erotic target location error", same as autopedophilia (shudder), with autogynephilia and apotemnophilia possibly being linked, or one even being a subset of the other? Now there's an idea for a PhD that would never, ever get funded!

vagender · 03/08/2018 00:34

Maybe that's why JB's birth date keeps changing.

I need a beer.

Tww1 · 03/08/2018 00:36

I truly understand how pissed of people on here who are doing their best to fight for our kids and our sex must feel. Especially when they are putting themselves on the line. Without these amazing posters we would all still give into the feelings that the trans ideology is imposing. Luckily for us newbies, we have posters here who can call us out when we are still putting men first. I love my man with all my heart just as I love my kids but I will not put their needs above other women and children if it is compromising their safety.
So this is the dilemma for me as a parent who has a male child who thinks they are female!!! I’m expected to love my child unconditionally that I will give up the rights of other women and children. I can’t do this. One persons happiness cannot erase the safety of others. This is my belief. It is not live and let live when the actions impact on others detrimentally. I can’t support my child’s belief, which in my opinion has no reality, onto others because I love my child. My love has to be suspended here when other lives are at risk. I can’t ask people to accept my child’s belief because this is a feeling. I can ask them to sympathise with him as clearly there are psychological issues which makes my child reject their sex. In no way would I ask them to collude and pretend his reality is true.
How can I ask women and children to accept my child into their space? This is the dilemma. I wouldn’t want someone to do this if it was their child.
So when JB did this allegedly, I was delighted simply because this is exactly what all you amazing posters commented on. Now I knew this was the way the trans ideology was going but having a person who influenced policy was the only way I could start to challenge my child and help him see that these activist have a darker agenda. This is not what peak transes me and it is not what suddenly made me realise that women and children need protecting. I always knew this. As a working class female who rose above their station, I know how difficult it is to fight the oppressor. The oppressor today for our kids is the transgender umbrella who are employing conversion therapy all nicely sugar coated as a ‘right’
Social justice warriors need to step back and fight for the things that really matter. It’s not about pronouns or being on the ‘right side of history’. It is about protecting ourselves from the woke dudes and the trans activists who are the wankers we would all avoid. We are giving the wankers a platform if we align ourselves with them. I can’t do this and despite the stress and concern I have for my own child I will not let them take my child without a fight.
Without the rad fems on here and other social media , I would not have the strength.
So I thank you all again and I hope us newbies don’t get your goat up too much. We rely on you to keep the faith.

JillyArmeeen · 03/08/2018 00:36

Cormarant strike, loved the TV series will have to order the books.
Jk Rowling has done quite well out of these threads I reckon.

JillyArmeeen · 03/08/2018 00:47

Tww1, thank you for that post.
I'm so sorry you are going through that, and your child, I hope their issues can be resolved without too much harm being done to them.
I think the lurkers thread really proved that all new people are welcome here, lots of women were saying they didn't feel clued up or articulate enough to contribute and got lots of encouragement.
Every voice matters. We're not just a few dozen women on the wrong side of history and every lurker that dates to speak proves that.
At the same time I can see why we need to be cautious especially about new posters starting threads, see public service announcement thread.

silentcrow · 03/08/2018 00:53

vagender ah. See, I left uni before Google was a thing, never mind Google Scholar. Oh god. So old. It never even crossed my mind. Grin

But even then, when all we had was text-based, dial-up bulletin boards, I did know someone who started the MTF route, and at least one AGP, and a whole slew of poly folk around a particular university town. It was that AGP that threw his weight around the community, accusing several young women, including me, of being "trendy bisexuals". Funnily enough, the person that peak transed me last month by telling me to sit down and shut up about "cis" is the person that I'd have pegged as an MRA then if I'd know what that was at the time.

Tww1 · 03/08/2018 01:04

JillyArmeen
i understand the issue with newbie posts but sometimes we just want to scream it out. If the poster starts a thread with no known history then I imagine there needs to be a safe guard. Especially as twitter dudes and tra’s are copying and pasting. I could be a plant. Who knows. The best bit though is how quick you all get it. I’m totally naive. I am always the one who gets caught out. I believe people are honest. Shocks me when I am wrong.

vagender · 03/08/2018 01:05

silentcrow

Google Scholar is a blessing, especially when someone tries to argue dodgy science with you - I'm currently reading up on the possibility of hormone exposure in utero as a factor for sex dysphoria because it was mentioned on another thread (I can't seem to find a paper that clearly states that there's or even might be a correlation, even for women with CAH the evidence is shaky and more focused on gendered behaviour).
Although I did just have a thought which may very well be the reach of the century... If autogynephilia is, in fact, linked to apotemnophilia, does that mean that autogynephiles really do view women as less able-bodied men?

Tww1 · 03/08/2018 01:15

I should have put inverted commas in ‘rose above their station’ as I was using the language others often say about my class.

AtreidesFreeWoman · 03/08/2018 01:17

Wow....

I will @ no more....

Personally, as I said, I like to know when someone is "speaking" directly to me.

I've been a regular on FWR for many, many years under various names.

My intention has never to be rude, nor do I feel I have been.

That said, I'm getting incredibly frustrated by some posters who feel they have a monopoly on this forum.

Hmm
seafret · 03/08/2018 01:46

What to people think of the issue of shame in all this, and the alleviation of deep/repressed shame through normalising and minimising etc.

All this validation and non-othering stuff - it is mixing up, perverting even, our ability to recognise that things exist and that people who have these things have distress that is real and understandable in that context, with going on to say that the disorder, and the behaviour it generates is normal, healthy and OK.

WRT MH I have heard someone say that being schizophrenic was just another way of being neurodiverse and its no big deal - as if it doesn't make any difference that a person has it, and as if it does not have serious and unhappy consquences for the life of the sufferer. As if reframing it would make it all OK then.

Their aim was to remove stigma and avoid the victim blaming/ shunning mentality, and to stop the person feling ashamed of having the condition, which of course they shouldn't as it is not their fault, but I don't think it actually helps anyone to try to alleviate shame by 'simply' re-defining the disorder and saying that disorders are actually just normal variation as opposed to dysfunctional and distressing problems.

Guilt and shame may be totally undeserved and misplaced, and my understanding is that it will only properly heal when the person is able to understand the mechanisms and effects of abuse and by helping the person not to feel inappropriately responsible and ashamed where they were innocent, but to be responsible for things that they are actully responsible for such as their own behavioural responses now.

But if shame-avoidance driven, mentally gymnastic MH problems go undiagnosed and unrecognised then of course people are going to feel able to publically seek to further validate and normalise their dysfunctions.

That some people have a powerful need to do that at any cost is a clear danger and in some respects seems to be fuelled by doctors who have seen validation, transition or amputation as a satisfctory resolution to a problem rather than as a sort of delusion arrangement similar to the legal fiction that allows people with a GRC to change the sex on their birth certificate. An end rather than a means to an end.

Shame and sexual abuse and/or psychological abuse and humilation go hand in hand. Some abusers are very expert in humilation as an extra dimension to sexual abuse. So much goes unreported and psychologically abusive circumstances are sadly the norm for many people.

TRIGGER WARNING There was a horrible case of a man who abused young boys, involving them in degrading him (and his penis) sexually, replaying aspects of sexual abuse he himself had suffered as a child and also validating his disgust with himself and his body, that developed as a result of his own abuse. Abhorrent to think and write about. This predatory man now calls himself a transwoman.

I don't think this is coincidence, or evidence of in utero hormone washes, but severe psycholgical damage that has a high risk of perpetuating itself in some people/circumstances and especially if victims do not get the help they need.

TimeLady · 03/08/2018 06:34

Looking at the GRA consultation paper, on p24 it says that in an LGBT survey of " 6,900 respondents identifying as trans (excluding non-binary)",
44% of respondents said that they did not satisfy the requirements for applying for a GRC.

What are the chances that Jess/Josh Bradley would fit into that 44%, given that their penchant for naked cooking and other exhibitionist activities suggests that they are not suffering from any form of dysphoria, quite the opposite. And this 44% still want the right to self-ID to bypass the current system? I bet they do.

Jess Bradley is still going to be key player in this consultation - but not for the reasons they initially believed

iamawoman · 03/08/2018 06:37

This is why psychological support is necessary and a diagnosis og gender dysphoria...

Anlaf · 03/08/2018 06:49

On the newbie front...

I think it's really helpful for newbies to explain their previous thinking- even if they previously thought we were horrible wankers. Cos I think we want to persuade more women with our arguments - and it's useful to know how those women might be thinking.

Also when I first posted here on this with a similar AND NOW I SEE a few years ago the response was "aye very good but how could you call yourself a feminist if you gave such little care about women and girls...."

And it was right, tbf, but I had no-one in real life to talk about feminism with, and was shut down hard if I tried. So talking freely about "male violence" was shocking to me, that you were even allowed to think that.

As was talking freely about negative impacts of gender id - a forbidden subject in the rest of life.

So, I say welcome to the newbies and if you get your arse handed to you by mildly grumpy fwr poster, then welcome to the club.

Bowlofbabelfish · 03/08/2018 07:02

Hormones washes totally unproven by the way ... Smile

As you were

Swipe left for the next trending thread