Page 35 | Jess Bradley, suspended - Part II

LaSquirrel · 2018-07-30T13:00:51+00:00

I thought I would kick off a part II Part I is here [[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos]]

nauticant · 02/08/2018 21:26

Anyway, I just wanted to say to BraveandStunning that the LGBT+ at summer camp thread is amazing me. There are posters on there who are saying* that they think there is no problem with 6 year olds being told that there are treatments that will actually change their sex so a little boy can, in all respects, become a little girl (and vice versa). I just can't understand why anyone would think very young children being told this would be anything other than potentially damaging.

I'm not sure whether they actually believe it, for example for their own kids

thebewilderness · 02/08/2018 21:28

My point is what I said it was.
I question the ethics of any person who declares that they were happy to sacrifice the safety of women and girls for the sake of their friend.
If a person was 180 opposed to women's rights and in favor of harming women and children for the sake of their friend who is transgender WTF are they doing here on a Feminism and Women's Rights board?
What do they want?
What are we expected to be helpful with? It isn't as though male predators is new news, so what is the point to coming here and announcing that they hated feminists yesterday but they had an epiphany and suddenly decided to tell us that they don't hate us any more.
What is the point to these kinds of comments, is my question.
AIBU?

AtreidesFreeWoman · 02/08/2018 21:30

@nauticant

Simply yes - to your last post....

It's not a peak hierarchy.

thebewilderness · 02/08/2018 21:33

I'm also getting pissed off at this "peaked too late" response. I started discussing this less than 2 years ago. Does that mean I should be told off or is that early enough for me to feel that I've "earned my place" in some way?

That isn't my issue at all.
I do not think it "helpful" to come in to a room full of Feminists and tell them you hated them yesterday but now you do not hate them any more and in fact want to chat.
Maybe I am just being cranky but I have read this over and over and cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would think it a good way to say hello.

Igorina · 02/08/2018 21:34

Possibly to show that even the most unlikely people are starting to sit up and pay attention?

That's good news to me but I also understand how it could rub people the wrong way.

FloralBunting · 02/08/2018 21:34

Some people have gradual realisations, some people have Damascus road conversions.

I genuinely don't think anyone is better than anyone else on this score, we all have our tipping point when we realize what is at stake.

thebewilderness · 02/08/2018 21:35

AtreidesFreeWoman

There is no need to @ people who are on the thread. It is rude and annoying.

R0wantrees · 02/08/2018 21:47

this [Truscum] is not the term for gender dysphoric transexuals at all. it is derived from true trans which as been around for years which in turn derived from the Harry bengimins. There have always been a group of trans usually woman that think they have done it properly that they meet all the diagnostics and are therefore proper transexuals that is the meaning. of late that seems to have morphed to gender critical trans women. but it as nothing to do with if they are dysphoric or not.

Rose of Dawn
"The phrase 'truscum' is often used against transsexuals who disagree with the gender radical agenda. But what does it actually mean? I dispel some of the strange and slanderous accusations levelled at truscum such as myself."

Ereshkigal · 02/08/2018 21:57

That's good news to me but I also understand how it could rub people the wrong way.

Me too.

AtreidesFreeWoman · 02/08/2018 22:04

@thebewilderness

Why is @ annoying?

I like to know when I'm referenced on a thread.

Personally I think it's courteous to let people know when I'm responding directly to them.

Agastache · 02/08/2018 22:05

Because you dont shout at someone when they are already at the table.

vagender · 02/08/2018 22:06

As a very, very new poster (this is my first post), I can understand why the JB situation would peak someone who previously would have shouted TWAW from the rooftops, although the frustration from seasoned posters here who have been doing admirable work for women's rights for years is also understandable.

I apologise in advance if my post doesn't make any sense - I've been gender critical for a long time, but have next to no experience articulating my views due to a very liberal social circle filled with self-identifying women, "enbies" etc which makes it pretty much impossible to bring up anything that's not in line with the current TRA rhetoric.
So, while MN didn't peak me (TRAs did that all by themselves!), it has been a great source of comfort, even just lurking, and immensely valuable resource since I found this board.

But yeah, I can understand how someone like JB would peak people who previously didn't see - or didn't want to see - the issues surrounding self ID, because it finally made me sign up and post here.

As mentioned by others, the fact that a high-end law firm has been hired to take care of a NUS employee on 24k does suggest that there's something else going on, and the idea that someone with those kinds of resources are trying to silence any discussion around risk assessment re: self ID, and consequently throwing women's rights under the bus just to cover up whatever they're trying to cover up is truly terrifying. On top of everything else.

Again, sorry for the wall of text and if this didn't make any sense... Just trying to wrap my head around nearly 2000 posts, I guess.

BettyDuMonde · 02/08/2018 22:10

Hi Vagender!

I love your name

thebewilderness · 02/08/2018 22:12

AtreidesFreeWoman
I will simply turn off notifications until you stop harassing me, but I thank you for showing people that you refuse to take no for an answer.

FloralBunting · 02/08/2018 22:12

@ ing people sends an email notification which can be quite intrusive and unnecessary unless you need to get someone attention who isn't on thread.

Bolding is quite adequate to signal who you are talking to.

vagender · 02/08/2018 22:16

Thanks Betty
I'm quite happy it wasn't taken yet!
(And also, thanks to whoever recommended Anna Salter's Predators on the other thread - I've ordered it!)

Mxyzptlk · 02/08/2018 22:19

Up until now, I was in favour of self-ID and dismayed at the disagreement between transactivists and feminists about the issue.

thebewilderness, that doesn't sound like a willingness to throw women and girls under the bus, or hating feminists.

Ninon's post read as stating that they didn't previously get the point and now they do.

Agastache · 02/08/2018 22:19

As a very, very new poster (this is my first post), I can understand why the JB situation would peak someone who previously would have shouted TWAW from the rooftops, although the frustration from seasoned posters here who have been doing admirable work for women's rights for years is also understandable.

I'm not saying that first posters need to be bowing down at the altar at all.

And for a first post yours is fab.

It is telling us that they were dismayed at our prior behaviour and - oh a bloke gets his cock out and suddenly - enlightenment. So all the women saying stuff for years - totally ignored.

A bit like walking into a coffee shop and shouting that I thought this coffee shop was shit yesterday, but today I think all is good, lets talk. Just so rude.

thebewilderness · 02/08/2018 22:28

Mxyzptlk
Maybe I am being unreasonable. They were in favor of Self ID and dismayed by Feminists saying no to men, and needed to share that with the women on FWR? OK, Whatever.

Iused2BanOptimist · 02/08/2018 22:33

I think all newcomers should be welcomed. I'm pretty new. Found the #peaktrans thread via twitter and promptly peaked, lurked for a bit, wondered about opening an account what with the data leak thing etc and finally plucked up courage to join and post occasionally. Prior to that it was all political correctness gone mad and really not recognising what was at stake. And nearly every day since then I have learnt about new things that frankly I wish I hadn't. (See any of the Gender Critical hits). There's a long way to go yet for the message to get out and people to really sit up and take notice. Now is not the time to shut the door on people who are just waking up.

vagender · 02/08/2018 22:36

I'm not saying that first posters need to be bowing down at the altar at all.

I didn't take it that way, not at all, but I get that it can be tiring to repeat the same thing over and over again with no one listening to you until some dude makes them see the light. As a woman, it has happened to me countless times. Hence why I lurked for months without posting.

It is telling us that they were dismayed at our prior behaviour and - oh a bloke gets his cock out and suddenly - enlightenment

FWIW, if you're fairly young like me and you try to engage in feminist circles irl, all you hear is TWAW, T*s are violent, nobody should be oppressed and radfems are oppressive. If you're very young and just starting out, you may have an idealistic worldview. Add that to close friends coming out as trans, and you've got yourself a big puddle of confusion, and the individualistic view of "Well, my friend would never do that!" is often the easier route. I know because I've been there, and I still get flashes of guilt arguing against what friends of mine assure me is in their best interest, even though I've familiarised myself with enough evidence to know that I'm right. Damn that female socialisation.

...if that makes any sense at all.

thebewilderness · 02/08/2018 22:36

I think all newcomers should be welcomed.

I think it is enough that management made it clear that all MRAs and TRAs are welcome to come and harass women on the FWR board.
I see no reason that the Feminists being harassed should welcome it.

MipMipMip · 02/08/2018 22:37

I just read it as their previously not being overly engaged with the subject and believing the transphobe calls. I think a lot of the time we have someone in our heads when we discuss things like this. I have JB so it's not surprising I am anti self ID. If they have a friend who wouldn't harm anyone then that will be the image that springs to their mind - they hear transphobe and feel their friend and others like them are being attacked.

I, along with many others, have long said that a large part of the problem is awareness. When you hear that trans people want self ID you imagine that it is a few quiet, unthreatening people living in hell who just want to have surgery and pretend they are the opposite sex. It's only as you learn more that you find out about the numbers who gave no surgery, the AGP, the training kids. Until you do learn then it does seem a battle of femanists vs poor innocent trans.

I freely admit that until I learnt more I thought it was bigotry. I was shocked at American bathroom battles and supported the poor innocent trans wholeheartedly.

I was wrong.

Agastache · 02/08/2018 22:39

Now is not the time to shut the door on people who are just waking up.

I get that. but if someone comes through that door saying yesterday you were shit, but today they will lower themselves to eat at your table, you will probably pull them up on it and not offer them quite the nicest cake.

Also...public service announcement - not all newbies are genuine.

thebewilderness · 02/08/2018 22:40

I apologize for derailing the thread with my grumpy.