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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jess Bradley, first transgender student officer, suspended after flashing photos

999 replies

CaitlynsCat · 29/07/2018 02:50

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6003331/Britains-official-transgender-student-officer-suspended.html

"Shocking images on the site show an individual flashing while sitting in a train carriage, in a public park and at a bus stop.

Another photograph shows male genitals being exposed in an office close to a curved wooden desk that is strikingly similar to a picture of a work desk that Ms Bradley posted on her Facebook page. "

The photo have been archived on archive.is, you can search there under the domain exhbitionizm.tumblr.com and include lots of flashing shots.

Bradley has commented:

" I appreciate at this time there is a lot of speculation about my conduct and I am able to tell you that I am confident that none of my behaviour has been unlawful, and that I have not engaged in sexual activity with anyone, or in the view of anyone, without their consent. "

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
Indierockandroll · 29/07/2018 20:02

Likeacrow please search on MN and you will find so much on this subject.

The transitioning of children is another huge issue - you'll find lots on.

Several weeks ago I stopped and read the threads. Once you do, I can assure you that there will be no fence sitting.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 29/07/2018 20:03

likeacrow, yes, I understand your thought process. But we are posting on a thread about a TRA being investigated for flashing her penis in public and posting pictures of that activity on the web. This is the time to screw your courage to the sticking place and acknowledge that this is precisely the reason we do not want anyone to have access to single sex spaces just on their own say so.

This.

Jess Bradley was telling that women have nothing to fear from having them in their space, whilst apparently carrying out exactly the sort of behaviour that women don't want in their space.

Do you understand that self id would mean any man could access a female space?

leyat · 29/07/2018 20:04

@likeacrow many women have never experienced any male violence. But this does not alter the fact that males are socialised from birth into masculinity, and a substantial minority of males end up predators, and that males are responsible for the vast majority of sexual and violent crime, and are usually capable of rape and capable of easily overpowering females. As such, women need safety from males, regardless of individual experiences, and this is the basis for sex segregation.

The question is, does this threat change when we are looking at males who identify as transgender, most of whom remain fully male bodied?

And the answer to that firstly comes from understanding that it is the male body that is the very real threat, it is around the male body that women and girls have to manage the threat that males pose. And most men who have some sort of trans identity that gives them access to women's spaces are visibly male, so we would normally still know we were in the presence of a male and change our behaviour and response to that space accordingly (& however unconsciously).

But also, predatory men who have some sort of trans identity, including those who identify as women, have done everything to women and girls that other predators have. We can't know the prevalence because it is not monitored, all we can know is that as a group they are in not excepted from the effects of masculine socialisation.

Surely one girl or woman's being assaulted and traumatised due to policies of including males in female only spaces if they have certain identities is one too many? And if we are not sure about that, how are we weighing up the humanity of males and females when we place male feelings above female safety?

I wouldn't compare irrationality - i.e. the idea that LGB people are in some way a threat - with the concerns of women around males in terms of safety. There is nothing irrational about our concerns. The only irrational position would be thinking that males can magically erase their socialisation, least of all when all the evidence is clear that this not the case.

Bowlofbabelfish · 29/07/2018 20:04

And I wondered if anyone else had this inner conflict, e.g. with the Daily Mail example.

Nope. Like most sensible people I read a range of media, am aware of what their marketing and biases are and am able to critically assess what I’m reading.

You seem to be saying that anyone agreeing with anything written in the DM is some kind of monster. Or attempting to create such an image in the mind of the reader.

ToeToToe · 29/07/2018 20:04

The TRAs have all shut up because they've no place to go with this.

Either - this person is a transwoman, who has been suspended for allegedly exposing their penis at work and in public. And 'Jess' has not issued a denial, only maintained that they have not broken the law.

Or - this person is not a real transwoman because no transwoman would possibly (allegedly) flash ladypenises in public like this for a sexual thrill - and so has been abusing transactivism/rights by pretending to be a transwoman.

Do I have enough 'allegedly-s' in there?

Either way - this demonstrates the need for women's facilities to be segregated by sex, not self-identified gender. Because it will be abused by people who get a sexual thrill exposing themselves to women.

I'm very much hoping this government, and Labour, will take note. This sort of thing will (should!) be the first nail in the coffin for self ID. I would like to thank the Mail on Sunday for reporting on this.

likeacrow · 29/07/2018 20:06

Bowlofbabelfish

I possibly don't have the same level of critical nuanced thinking as some on here to be honest.

I wasn't using it as a slur. I sometimes read the DM online. It's just with stuff like transsexual issues I would assume the DM would take a less than liberal stance, whereas I would also assume that most feminists consider themselves liberal, and wondered if that therefore caused a conflict. That's all I really meant.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread.

CholloDeNombre · 29/07/2018 20:06

Agreed, Bowl. There is a ridiculous need to categories people to the nth degree, and we then get so tightly bound to our ideologies that there's no wriggle room to say "hang on, maybe I was wrong" or "I'd like to think about that concept a little further" or "this makes me uncomfortable - why is that?"

Just black and white rigidity.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 29/07/2018 20:07

Coming to this late. Do we have confirmation yet that it was in fact Jess' penis on display?

leyat · 29/07/2018 20:09

@likeacrow the right wing media will cover predators regardless of how they identify. The left wing media apparently won't. This is not an indictment of feminists, it is an indictment of left wing media.

FloralBunting · 29/07/2018 20:09

VickyEadie, I chose my words carefully. I will only very rarely use 'she' for a transwoman now - usually someone I meet in real life, because I'm English and polite.

I won't do it online, preferring names and neutral pronouns.

But in this instance, I think the use of the female pronoun juxtaposed with the correct term for genitalia is tremendously effective in pointing out the gravity and absurdity of the situation.

Plus, I don't want to get deleted Wink

Kyanite · 29/07/2018 20:10

There's a difference between having a fetish and suffering from gender dysphoria. The current law is aimed at helping the latter but self-ID would help the former.

leyat · 29/07/2018 20:11

No confirmation except that Jess hasn't denied it and the photo's appear to be Jess's work desk. It seems clear that Jess thinks that because there was no audience it was not a criminal act, but I think they're wrong about that.

Dragoncake · 29/07/2018 20:12

Bowlofbabelfish I'm just catching up on the thread. Thank you for contacting Private Eye.

LighthouseSouth · 29/07/2018 20:12

@likeacrow

I would be careful thinking that of media outlets. You never know what direction they will take. You're aware of the Guardian talking about "migrant children selling sex" like they were adults making informed choices while sipping a martini?

we live in a very strange world at the moment. Also do you know about this? "women"? These crimes are recorded as being committed by women.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/6618531/eicester-square-underground-station-man-attacked-women-gang-video/

treaclesoda · 29/07/2018 20:15

I'd be really interested to hear the TRAs say 'ah, but Jess isn't a real transwoman' considering that a week ago Jess was an mainstream national TV talking about exactly how they were indeed a transwoman. When you've used someone as your very spokesperson it's got to be tricky to say 'oh no, we were wrong, they're not one of us'. Because if you claim to have been totally unaware of their unsavoury motives, you look gullible. And if you say that you knew all along you look sinister (because you are sinister).

NoSquirrels · 29/07/2018 20:17

Most people still think trans rights is about males and females being able to gender non-conform, and think that rejecting the mantra that 'transwomen are women' equates to rejecting the idea that males who connect with/perform femininity should be accepted at all

YY - this is the lefty woke problem in a nutshell.

Flooffloof · 29/07/2018 20:19

I'm thinking of something like you'd see in a tv thriller when the detective puts all the evidence up on a wall to help them connect things and see any patterns...I think it'd be very interesting...

It's called a trello board. There are online versions if someone has the time?
Sorry I don't have the expertise.

leyat · 29/07/2018 20:20

Thing is you can't support the idea of innate gender identity, which asserts that our gender is only knowable to us as individuals and is for each of us to self-declare, and also the idea that there is such a thing as true trans.

likeacrow · 29/07/2018 20:20

LighthouseSouth Yeah it doesn't make sense does it. It falsely minimises male violence while simultaneously blaming women and putting them in danger by taking away their right to male free spaces. I get it.

Hygge · 29/07/2018 20:26

@likeacrow - one of the biggest worries about self-ID is that nobody actually has to transition at all to gain access to what should be single sex spaces.

If a man who has not transitioned AND HAS NO INTENTION OF EVER TRANSITIONING wants to gain access to a woman's changing room, he will be able to do so, just on his say so that at that particular moment, he is self-IDing as a woman. Apparently most trans people do not, in fact, transition in any way. They keep the biologically body they were born with.

Worse, a man in a woman's changing room probably won't even be asked how he identifies, because women are being told they cannot challenge anybody in these spaces for fear of causing offence.

We will have to assume that the man in the ladies changing room is self-IDing as a woman just by virtue of him being there.

So that man may not actually be trans at all.

We keep being told it won't happen but a lot of the things we're being told won't happen already are.

For example, we are being told that women in women's prisons will not be in danger from men who identify as women being sent to women's prison with them - but this is just one report where four women have been sexually assaulted by a trans prisoner with a fully working penis while in New Hall Prison, Wakefield.

Or there's this story, about a man who raped two girls but then identified as a woman and was sent to a women's prison even though he had not had any reassignment surgery. One girl was under 16 years old, the other girl was disabled. This person then had to be segregated within the women's prison because of 'unwanted advances'.

The same article references another violent prisoner who was moved twice because they sexually pursued women prisoners while awaiting gender reassignment surgery. This second prisoners sister claims she doesn't believe her brother really does identify as a woman, she believes he is manipulating the system.

These are just three examples of people with penises being sent to women's prisons and women suffering sexual assaults and harassments as a result.

Then a trans prisoner who won a competition to be "Miss Fitness" in a Scottish prison contest. This article states that as well as winning the women's prison fitness competition, Alex Stewart, who repeatedly stabbed a man to death within hours of meeting him, has not had reassignment surgery but showers with female prisoners as well as competes against them.

The article is quoted as saying "The rest of them shouldn't have even bothered entering" the competition and that "Everybody knew it wasn't very fair, but nobody was allowed to say it."

Even worse, the article also says that "This means she is in the showers at the same time as other inmates, which some have found quite awkward." Apparently their awkwardness is meaningless though because "She has the right to determine her own gender."

I know I've focused on prisons and prisoners, but you can find plenty of similar examples for areas that affect other women. Sports for example.

And just because this hasn't affected you yet, it's not a reason to think that this is okay. You don't have to blindly believe the concerns or have experienced being in prison with these prisoners to understand why this is a massive problem that can and will affect all women in all aspects of their lives.

I'm fairly sure I could find a real life example for every concern on that list I posted previously if you wanted me to find them for you.

Women are being intimidated when they attend meetings to discuss issues that affect them. Bomb threats have been made. Venues have been bullied. At least one woman has been punched in the face for going to a meeting. Others have been doxxed and had their employers contacted.

Crimes that men have commented are now being recorded as women's crimes. Crimes against women are not being recorded properly.

Everything on that list is happening and more. Sooner or later, this will affect you.

VickyEadie · 29/07/2018 20:29

FloraBunting

VickyEadie, I chose my words carefully. I will only very rarely use 'she' for a transwoman now - usually someone I meet in real life, because I'm English and polite.

I won't do it online, preferring names and neutral pronouns.

But in this instance, I think the use of the female pronoun juxtaposed with the correct term for genitalia is tremendously effective in pointing out the gravity and absurdity of the situation.

Plus, I don't want to get deleted wink

I knew that!

likeacrow · 29/07/2018 20:31

Hygge.

Very powerful, thank you for taking the time to write all of that.

It's very clearly wrong and I'm now pretty terrified for my DD when she grows up.

Is there any chance self ID won't fully be allowed? Can the tide be turned?

Hygge · 29/07/2018 20:32

@likeacrow I may have sounded more shouty there than I intended.

I'm not meaning that you've said any of this is okay.

In a nutshell, self-ID is likely to be abused by men who are not trans but find claiming they are gives them access to women or women's spaces in a way they have previously not had.

And women who have never previously had an issue with trans people will find that they now have a very big problem they are not allowed to talk about as a result.

hackmum · 29/07/2018 20:33

Well said, Hygge.

theOtherPamAyres: "Their tweets say that there is ongoing cover up of 'trans abusers' within trans organisations.
They seem to be saying that people knew about the conduct but thought it best to stay silent."

If this is true, it's going to be huge. I wonder what Owen "wrong side of history" Jones will have to say for himself then?

likeacrow · 29/07/2018 20:35

Hygge

It didn't come across shouty at all. Just passionate. I've screenshotted it all as I found it so helpful and informative.

I'm fully on board that self ID is not a good thing and is actually pretty terrifying. Now I just want to know what we can do about it!