Excellent counter-view to ROGD

[garam]

Usually when you see hashtags about a diagnosis that doesn't stem from the medical establishment, you would be right to be dubious.
The anti-vaxxers are a good comparison.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1021324454067163136.html

the numbers will keep increasing, as more and more people come out as trans
Year on year, perhaps. But the chart doesn't show a cumulative increase. You could show a cumulative increase in people becoming firefighters if you just showed how many signed up each year (and ignored anyone who left or retired or died). It would be disingenuous, as the public wouldn't have any more actual firefighters. What the chart actually shows is an increase per year, so more people becoming firefighters in this year than last year, more last year that the year before, etc. An actual increase. In firefighters, or in children medicalised by this process.

It means they were in the closet............... then they came out.

What do you mean in the closet?

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition. It's not a diversity tick.

How can a medical condition be in the closet????

It's only medical for children, right? For grown men it's a lifestyle choice? Or did I get that bit wrong?

Just to clarify, by ‘the treatment varies’ I mean “how society treats gay people’, not ‘medical treatment’.

To digress slightly, there is a very real difference between coming out as a homosexual or as a trans person. If a child or young person comes out as gay, and later changes their mind, or lives as a straight person, and comes out as gay later in life (as many women do), there is no lasting physical damage to the individual. A few years "experimenting" with lesbianism in uni isn't going to lose a girl her breasts or her fertility.

vimeo.com/185149379

Is this the expert we should listen to?
If this was true then I have to say my child is not trans as nothing in this was ever displayed by my child.
Social isolation, bullying by peers, anxiety and internet binging on sites have contributed to self diagnosis of trans.
Please hear our voice and help our kids work through puberty first. ROGD is occurring because kids no longer understand puberty and if they feel an outsider which most do during these tumultuous years the trans narrative gives them some sense of validation. Also non conforming children are being steered into a identity that pitches them as the other sex. Parents are not doing this. Trans adults who align themselves with this new ideology are.
You ask us to trust these people over professionals and parents who understand puberty and who understand mental health issues and who understand feelings change.

Since the transgender ideology also says gender can change on a daily bases or you actually can have no gender, how can you insist transgender is something you were born with?
The narrative does not make sense yet we are being forced to believe this.
Why then is ROGD not allowed any credence?
You are redefining sex, language and the diagnosis of Transgender yet you are not allowing other people the same curtesy.
I know my truth and that is this ideology is attempting to erase the sexes. Suddenly I am c** woman. No one asked me if I agreed to this. The trans narrative invented it.

Arguing and debating this is difficult because once one thing is proved incorrect, the trans ideology invent new terms and new ways to put the message across

Now our kids no longer need to have gender dysphoria.

If this is true then basically our kids are just kids who are expressing their personality

Should a personality be treated to hormones and surgery. Just to be clear
Surgery is double mastectomy, hysterectomy, testicle removal, penile inversion to make a hole and because this still isn’t enough to make the person feel like a woman, feminising facial surgery and breast implants. We are building a new person.
Why would anyone want to erase themselves so much that this is the standard protocol?
Surely someone needs to explore why the person hates them self so much?
Surely the person who goes through this has psychological issues?
Or am I just being too thick to understand?
If I as a non professional can ask these questions, and told because it is a feeling and feelings can not be challenged, does this mean I can say and do whatever I want because of my feelings?
We know this would not be allowed. Yet this is what trans ideology proposes. If this is acceptable then
What next???

I don't believe you.

That's what this comes down to.

I don't believe that two of the three girls I know with ROGD had any problem whatever with their birth sex before they hit the internet in their teen years.

The oldest might have. I suspect Asperger's has a lot to do with it in that case, though.

Another is gay, from a strictly religious family who were unlikely to accept it.

The third is from a chaotic multi-'uncle' household, and the possibility that she falls into the third category of 'autistic, lesbian, abused' worries me quite a lot.

Garam have a read: www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804

garam

When you use the word 'trans', what cohort of people are you referring to?

Is it people with gender (or sex) dysphoria - a revulsion with their sexed bodies which they desire to change to look like that of the opposite sex?

Or is it people who like to dress and behave like the opposite sex, but have no problem with their bodies?

Or is it men with a fetish who like to imagine themselves as women, and change their bodies accordingly - but not necessarily lose their penis?

Or some other group? Or all of them, since they are all under the 'trans' umbrella?

Because it's important that we know which group of people we're referring to.

For the first group, it would be better if they could accept their bodies, if at all possible.

For the second group, no treatment is necessary.

The third group is irrelevant as far as children are concerned, but are still referred to as 'trans'.

Sorry, Tww, you probably gathered that wasn't aimed at you!

We are building a new person. Why would anyone want to erase themselves so much that this is the standard protocol? Surely someone needs to explore why the person hates them self so much?
This is the key factor for me. If an adult wants to undergo unnecessary surgery that is one thing but to allow a child to do it is quite another. Imagine allowing your ten year child to tattoo her whole face with scales because she felt more comfortable as a dinosaur. And that's just an aesthetic change. If that seems ridiculous (and it should) then why would self-hate or even self-discomfort justify mutilation and sterilisation?
Especially as in adult straight males with AGP, self-hate, self-discomfort or any form of dysphoria is deemed unnecessary?

Garam have a read : www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5841333/

Gawd blimey, it's too bloody hot for this bollocks.

No garam, I will not be ignoring the evidence of my own eyes that my child was simply a GNC female until she hit puberty and the 'net and decided that her naturally occuring personality meant she was the opposite sex.

Because medicalization based on regressive stereotypes and a fundamental misunderstanding of how girls feel about their bodies especially during puberty is a shitty, shitty thing.

But apart from that, I'm going back to lying prone by a fan and continue to watch Bowl skilfully take your crappy arguments apart, because I know full well the 'balance' you have provided today will serve very well as an illustration of the complete bankruptcy of your beliefs.

More reading for Garam: www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30765-0/abstract?code=jah-site

I'm still not sure I understand garam position.

Is it that a young child (3 to 5 years of age according to Mermaids), is worried about telling their parents that they are repulsed by their own body, for fear of society's lack of acceptance? And this goes on for ten or so years?

Ffs.

Women and children are suffering dreadfully because of this. Women are posting on at least three current threads trying to make sense of ROGD, and twits like you are claiming it's because three-year-olds fear public vilification.

"The name of the person who wrote the thread in the OP takes you to an anime site. The name of the person in the opening post is Japanese."

Really?

No doubt you'll be able to provide a link.

But as you seem wildly allergic to basic research, let's go back to Google.

translate.google.co.uk/#ja/en/Sakura

Cherry Blossoms

translate.google.co.uk/#ja/en/No

Possessive (of)

translate.google.co.uk/#ja/en/Seirei

Spirit

So the name means Spirit of Cherry Blossom. Very threatening.

And all researched using English.

So in fact, no apparent anime connection. And a search for 'Sakura' brings up:

Steak Houses, Restaurants, and Cherry Blossoms, or at least for me, based on my location.

But thanks for pointing out that you've tried your hand at mudslinging by making a claim based on no evidence in the hopes of emotionally appealing to the prevailing zeitgeist that foreign animation is somehow perverted (cause we all know that sex never gets represented in live-action stuff, no sirree).

Is that your raison d'être? (that would be French, if you're struggling)

Making up stuff without researching, hoping to retreat into a fog of unrelated words and insults when it gets spotted?

Is it working?

Why the fuck is icynoll using the thread to 'educate' everyone on amine and randomly googled stuff? Weirdest attempted derail i've seen in a while.

"Why the fuck is icynoll using the thread to 'educate' everyone on amine and randomly googled stuff? Weirdest attempted derail i've seen in a while."

No sirree, just pointing out that a favourite poster on here decided that engaging with the thread and argument was pointless and so decided to engage in some mudslinging, trying to paint somebody as being a deviant and no doubt a lover of foreign animation (personally I'm a big fan of the French Canadian animation produced during the 90s, guess that makes me a deviant as well) based on, well, nothing really, apart from that sneering that Brits do so well; because something sounds be foreign it's probably dangerous, or perverted, but certainly not to be trusted.

Turns out that when pressed on that argument the poster had nothing to back up their claims, and their "arguments" (and how loosely must that term be applied here to fit) had nothing to do with anything.

Qué sorpresa.

The idea of rapid onset (of a variety of things) isn't an uncommon phenomenon in teenage girls especially those in close proximity to each other (and now of course we have online proximity too.)

I remember watching a documentary some years ago about the case of the teen girls from Le Roy in the US. This article lays out what went on there, it's an interesting read and has some parallels with the demographic of girls who are now experiencing ROGD.

www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/magazine/teenage-girls-twitching-le-roy.html

Blinkin flip icynoll, what did Datun ever do to you?

I don’t think her position on anime or Japanese names is really the meat of her position on ROGD, is it?

What do you think of the possibility of links with autism and abuse in teenage girls identifying as trans? What advice do you offer to parents who believe that their children are expressing distress rather than a truly held, innate gender identity? rather than yelling, would you like to engage at all?

"Blinkin flip icynoll, what did Datun ever do to you?"

Somebody has to have done something to me to point out that their arguments are ad hominem and nothing to do with anything? That their every increasingly thin excuses hold no water?

Icy.

If you click on the thread, then google the person who wrote that thread on Twitter, you get to an anime site called deviantART.

(I've no idea what you did to get to a steakhouse.)

Their interest in anime correlates with that of very many late transitioning men.

None of this is a secret, nor is it a surprise.

Do you have anything, anything at all to contribute to this thread about ROGD?

Regardless of the merits of foreign art, the Deviant Art website does contain some very out there stuff from kink communities (even if it is well drawn).

This and tumblr are two websites I have blocked via my wifi because it's not somewhere I want my arty 11 yr old to access.

He may well do when he's older and figures out how to bypass parental controls with VPNs however until then I'd prefer to keep him away from stumbling across tentacle porn.

Datun Let's make it very easy for Garam here's the link :

www.deviantart.com/sakura-no-seirei