Daughter with ROGD - issues with school

[Hoggirl765]

My daughter presents with ROGD. Her school is going forward with affirming this by way of calling her by her boys name and male pronouns. That's all so far. This despite our repeated requests to step back and watch and wait - to go at our pace as a family (basically back off). She has had a lot of emotional upheaval in her short life and has always found it hard to fit in. We have found a wonderful counsellor and that's all we're prepared to do at present. She is just 14 and at present is very enthusiastic and keyed into her school work and in general seems happy. No self harm etc. The school have caused us as a family so much unnecessary stress and then said that's it you'll have to wait til September now. If it wasn't for the excellent teaching we would be moving her. Has anyone else has experiences with unsupportive, insensitive or unsympathetic schools?

We would be 'theying' all over the bloody place!!!!

Background and discussion to the recent challenges and scrutiny of Allsorts School Toolkit in Vale of Glamorgan.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3277860-Transgender-Toolkit-criticism-scrutiny

also recent thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3312963-Every-parent-should-read-transactivisms-dangerous-myth-of-parental-rejection

Procrastinator1
Our Council is a 'Stonewall Champion' DD's primary school has their logo all over everything, this will presumably go hand in hand with training of their preferred approach.

Why is that allowed??

Snappity

You have highlighted and agreed with the statement, "this is not a transgender issue,this is a supporting young people issue.”

I have read nothing in your posts that convinces me that you understand this.

@snappity you need to learn how to read better.

The parent has sought counselling, and the child is engaging with their counsellor. May I be so bold as to suggest that the counsellor, having met and listened to said child, and recommended continued talking and NOT affirmation or use of new name or pronouns, that in fact their expert professional opinion is far more relevant that yours, given that you do not know the child and have no relevant parenting experience.

Believe it or not, it's not about you.

allowing a child to explore their gender identity with support from parents is the cautious approach because it allows parents to collaborate in the exploration through open-minded discussion.

You can “allow your child to explore their gender identity” without affirming or denying.

If you are a good parent, you can keep the lines of dialogue open and explain your reasons without forbidding, banning or traumatising.

You can take your child to counselling and get professional advise. You can weigh up all sides while you watch and wait.

You don’t have to blindly affirm e writhing a vulnerable minor thinks is a good idea.

You’d be negligent if you did.

Recent thread with contributions from many working in education:

OP imwideawake asked:
(extract)
"I wonder what Head Teachers, teachers (and anyone else involved in the nurturing and educating of our young people) are really thinking about the worrying way in which activists have turned their attention to children and have successfully infiltrated the school system, to the point they seem to be having having a very real and disturbing influence on young impressionable minds and their bodies.

What do they make of this mass bombardment of our children - encouraging children to go down the trans route, instead of leaving them be - to dress and behave how they want to, and to grow up with minimal interference to their minds and bodies.

The constant scaremongering of parents by so-called experts. The rolling out of dubious stats as a threat as to what might happen if the parents don't listen to the current advice.
Children taking hormone blockers when the long term effects haven't been properly tested.
Children being encouraged to mutilate their perfect bodies..." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301871-What-do-educators-make-of-what-is-happening-in-our-schools?

safeguarding guidelines specifically caution against doing anything that replicates that dynamic even if you have the best of intentions because doing so makes things easier for those whose intentions are less good

This is a vital point for all child protection issues not just the OP's particular issue here. These are some abuser techniques:

*confidential disclosures (keeping the secrets of a vulnerable child to gain control of that vulnerable child)

*parental alienation (so that parents are less likely to find out what is happening)

*disavowal of a multi agency approach (makes it easier for an abuser to infiltrate into a position of closeness to children)

It doesn't matter how noble their intentions, anyone mirroring these techniques should be avoided at all costs. Firstly, because it makes it impossible for a child to tell the difference between someone they can trust and someone who might abuse them. And secondly because it nullifies the checks and balances we have set up to guard against abuser infiltration of institutions and positions of trust.

We're on a parenting website here. And all parents should be aware of these points so that they can adequately protect their children. This goes for all children and all adults working with them, regardless of anything to do with transactivism or trans issues. Not everything is about trans.

If you take one thing from this thread: please take these basic safeguarding points and never forget them. And distrust anybody who suggests you should ignore them.

I reported a couple of snappitys posts in here, but it seems I need not have bothered given HQ have clearly read them as they have deleted the REPLIES to the abusive posts?! What the actual fuck?

I still have not finished the thread, so no doubt snappity has had more posts accusing parents on here of child abuse left to stand, while people who reply to snappitys obvious goading bullshit are deleted. HQ..for fucks sake

Also please take this - it's always OK to take "expert" advice about your child with a grain of salt, and that principle applies even more strongly when "expert" is taken to mean "had a half hour training and read a pamplet". Second and even third opinions are good to have, but ultimately filtering all of that through what you know about your specific child, their history, their personality, and so on is your job as a parent. Don't let people shame or bully you out of doing that job, because it's absolutely vital to the wellbeing of your children.

If someone tells you something about your child and your gut is telling you that they're wrong, or that they may be right but you're not sure, it's always OK to keep looking for more information and keep asking questions.

vickyyyy

I have an ignore poster button...i think MNHQ have one too

I cant post what i want to say even if i phrase it nicely as it will be deleted

FWR regulars seem to be stalked on other threads and reported for deletion

We will be back at the yawn stage soon

Most of the regulars are bored with the incessant nonsense of TRAs.

They respond mostly to warn newbies and lurkers.

Absolutely datun, but they tend to be people with something interesting to say...not me

But its really not fair that MNHQ is holding some posters up to an incredibly high standard and not everyone

And people stalking othe posters across the boards really isnt on

And holding FWR to a higher standard than any other board isnt on either

I agree that HQ have made a rod for their own back, here. By being explicit about the rules, they are allowing the abuse of the women on here.

It's awful to behold.

Yes, Datun. Which is why Lang's list is so important.

1. Encouraging children to share secrets with one trusted adult and no others...

2. Cutting children off from their parents

3. Setting oneself (or one's preferred pressure group) up as a "guru" who is the fount of all wisdom, while discouraging building a more rounded picture by contact with professionals in a wide range of fields whose expertise may be relevant and who have experience of safeguarding.

Anyone who does this is undermining safeguarding procedures, even if their motives are good.

This is a vital point for all child protection issues not just the OP's particular issue here. These are some abuser techniques:

confidential disclosures (keeping the secrets of a vulnerable child to gain control of that vulnerable child)

parental alienation (so that parents are less likely to find out what is happening)

disavowal of a multi agency approach (makes it easier for an abuser to infiltrate into a position of closeness to children)

It doesn't matter how noble their intentions, anyone mirroring these techniques should be avoided at all costs. Firstly, because it makes it impossible for a child to tell the difference between someone they can trust and someone who might abuse them. And secondly because it nullifies the checks and balances we have set up to guard against abuser infiltration of institutions and positions of trust.

^^THIS absolutely firsts and foremost.

Oh again absolutely datun

And allowing people not even on the site to complain!!

What the hell

If i have a problem with someone i tell them...i dont get some random off the street to do it

John Boothman and Jamie McDonald Times article, 'Legal battle over school gender rule' (June 2018)

(extract)
"The Scottish government is facing a legal challenge over guidance that teachers should allow primary school pupils to switch gender identity without seeking parents’ consent.

The action is being threatened by the Christian Institute which says it fails to safeguard the rights and responsibilities of parents.

The guidance says teachers should not tell parents if their child changes gender in school unless the child, who could be as young as four, gives permission .

It also suggests school staff should inform local councils of parents who “struggle” with their child’s transgender identity, and says parents should not be told if their children are sharing rooms with transgender pupils.

In a letter to the Scottish government from law firm Balfour+Manson on behalf of the institute, ministers are asked to withdraw the guidance pending further consideration or risk judicial review.

Raising concerns about the shared use of toilets and changing facilities, it states: “For many young people, being forced to use a toilet or changing facilities with trans young people who retain the genitalia of the opposite sex raises a concerning disregard for personal privacy.”

Ciarán Kelly, the institute’s deputy director, said: “It beggars belief that the Scottish government has authorised a state-funded campaign group to dictate to teachers what their obligations are and strip parents of their responsibilities.” (continues)

See also:
www.heraldscotland.com/news/16311379.schools-forget-girls-in-rush-to-adopt-pro-trans-guidance-campaigners-claim-as-christian-group-threatens-legal-action/

Apologies,
link to Times article quoted:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/legal-battle-over-school-gender-rule-kbjkdnzxd

The guidance says teachers should not tell parents if their child changes gender in school unless the child, who could be as young as four, gives permission

Can you imagine about finding out from, say, another parent who is inviting your little boy (actually your daughter) to a party or something?

Can you imagine that few minutes of dawning realisation that your child is being referred to by a different name and sex at school, possibly using different facilities, with the whole school being complicit not only in that, but in keeping it from you?

That should strike utter terror into the heart of any parent. Any person.

I'm so grateful for the women on here who are raising safeguarding concerns, with the knowledge and experience that they have in the field.

The guidance says teachers should not tell parents if their child changes gender in school unless the child, who could be as young as four, gives permission

Mermaids have recently started a campaign in response to the GRA consultation. They are claiming this is discriminatory against the human rights of children/ young people and want self-id extended to under 18's #IKNOWWHOIAM

(this is also a current legislative focus in Ireland)

See Mermaids FB pinned post:
www.facebook.com/MermaidsGender/posts/1742222849207817

Susie Green discussed this when interviewed on SKY news last week.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3311038-Sky-News-9-30am-today-re-GRA

my notes from watching the interview c&p from thread above:
"Susie Green from Mermaids is currently on at -2:05

In discussion about the Govt. consultation on GRA she said they were encouraging people to use Q10 & Q11 to highlight age discrimination against children / young people. 'Mermaid's parents and children feel left out & that human rights should apply from birth'. That children should be covered by this too. Disappointed that children were not covered.

said huge amounts of discrimination on a day to day basis.
Susie said that all 7 suicide attempts over a 3 year period made by her daughter were directly linked to a transphobic attack.

We are still seeing that level of hatred and prejudice against children as young as 6 or 7 yrs old, says 'its why 45 % of our young people have attempted suicide at least once and over 80% self harm" ...'it is an emergency'

Asked how young is too young for a child to self-identify?
Susie Green said at age 3-5 years a children generally align with their gender, they notice and start to fit as either girl or boy. We only ask those who say their birth gender doesn't fit. If a child is vocalising to you at a very early age, it must mean they feel it strongly'

She also seemed to draw a binary distinction between parents:
"If I had continued to try to convince her that how she felt was bad or wrong I would not have the happy daughter that I have now."

Advised parents to listen to their child not shame them.

Why has this person been handed such status?

This is why allowing pronouns and name changes in school is dangerous. The child, believing they are the opposite sex will then feel the pressure to use the changing/shower room and toilet of said sex. Or do the schools draw a line on this ? We have to assume that the kids have not had sexual reassignment Surgery.
I hope the OP has been helped by this thread. It certainly confirms my concerns.

April 2015 Independent opinion article by Susie Green:

"I've been called an abusive and dangerous parent, when all I did was listen to my transgender child
Since then, I've seen over 200 children who have gone through transition, and it's always the same – we ignore them at their peril"

"Puberty is in itself a diagnostic tool. If it doesn't not cause distress, then the likelihood is that the child is not transgender. If it does cause distress, then hormone blocking medication is given, which is completely reversible if needs be.

When my daughter started puberty at 12, she was incredibly depressed. She started taking overdoses of paracetamol, before moving onto to self-harming with razor blades. For her, it was a daily relief and distraction to her body changing in a way she couldn't control. She was prescribed blockers at 13.

Luckily, my daughter and I weren't completely alone. When she was six I called a helpline run by the group Mermaids, which supports children with gender identity issues and their families. This was after she asked when she could have the operation to make her a girl. I cannot tell you the feeling I had during that call. Comfort cannot even begin to come close."

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-been-called-an-abusive-and-dangerous-parent-when-all-i-did-was-listen-to-my-transgender-child-10165241.html