Daughter with ROGD - issues with school

[Hoggirl765]

My daughter presents with ROGD. Her school is going forward with affirming this by way of calling her by her boys name and male pronouns. That's all so far. This despite our repeated requests to step back and watch and wait - to go at our pace as a family (basically back off). She has had a lot of emotional upheaval in her short life and has always found it hard to fit in. We have found a wonderful counsellor and that's all we're prepared to do at present. She is just 14 and at present is very enthusiastic and keyed into her school work and in general seems happy. No self harm etc. The school have caused us as a family so much unnecessary stress and then said that's it you'll have to wait til September now. If it wasn't for the excellent teaching we would be moving her. Has anyone else has experiences with unsupportive, insensitive or unsympathetic schools?

I'd be keeping her as busy as possible over the summer and limiting internet access.

ButterflyT

I'm not sure what you mean by ROGD and a scientific basis, but I would be interested to know what your explanation is for the ten girls at a well known girl's school, who all came out as trans simultaneously.

on the other hand, recommends approaches which effectively involve invalidating your child and telling them that they are wrong

TT obviously acknowledge gender dysphoria. Stephanie Davis Arai encounters children with it, relentlessly. What she doesn't agree with is that they have changed sex.

Do you think they have changed sex?

OP, this bush to remove parental authority is extremely worrying. I totally agree with you.

Hi Hoggirl. Have you considered whether your dd has autistic traits? It is worth checking if she has never felt she fits in. Has she asked you to use male pronouns?

To help my dd overcome GD like symptoms I did my best to de-gender her world. Neutral nickname linked to her name, no use of the word 'girl' in connection with my dd. I celebrate her clothing and activity choices in an understated "that is so you" way. I challenge and expose every bit of sexism and stereotyping we jointly encounter so she knows I'm not a genderist and would never try to put her in a box marked 'girl'. I very clearly stated to her, however, that male and female brains are the same in every way that matters and that saying any different is sexist. I did not change her pronouns and she didn't ask me to. You need to go into school early in the new year and ask who suggested changing pronouns. Was it a direct request from your dd or did they suggest It? If the latter are they qualified to make a decision that could have a psychological effect on your dd?

Agreeing with pp. Stephanie Davis Arai's first advice is get them off the Internet.

What could possibly be concerning about a supportive family taking the approach specifically recommended by experts? And questioning the school's inappropriate pushiness?

We are talking about a vulnerable child going from an environment in which his gender identity is affirmed (school) to one in which his OP parent in public (on Mumsnet) where he might read it deliberately misgenders him. My suspicion is that she does it to his face too. To go from an environment where he gets affirmation at least part of the day to one in which he is misgendered makes me concerned for the welfare of the child.

We aren't talking about hormones so that is a red herring. We are talking about the basics of having sufficient respect for a child to respect their identity.

But 80% of gender non-conforming teens who at some point in adolescence identify as trans go on to desist and the Tavistock recomment "watch and wait" rather than uncritical affirmation. [puzzled]

OP's child might turn out to be trans, then again they might not.

How would the school manage if there is a spate of children with anorexia?

But 80% of gender non-conforming teens who at some point in adolescence identify as trans go on to desist and the Tavistock recomment "watch and wait" rather than uncritical affirmation. [puzzled]

So far as blockers are concerned, yes. But, whether or not the child ultimately desists or not, we are talking about going from a situation where the school (quite rightly) is affirming to one where the OP in public is using the wrong pronouns. At the very least that is unfair on the child, and possibly downright dangerous if the child is trans.

But how is it "wrong pronouns" if you don't actually know whether the child will eventually turn out trans or not?

OP, this bush to remove parental authority is extremely worrying. I totally agree with you.

Child welfare is more important than the wishes of the parents.

Child welfare should be paramount, agreed. Which means that organisations like Mermaids should not be issuing advice to schools which includes, among other suggestions, not telling parents things and encouraging children to keep secrets, which pretty much goes against everything we've learned from every child safeguarding failure in the last 50 years or so.

I don't think it's parents we need to be worried about here.

At the very least that is unfair on the child, and possibly downright dangerous if the child is trans.

Oh, is it dubious stats o’clock? Go on then, Snaps, roll ‘em out.

Snappity
But if he doesn't presently feel safe enough at home to use a male identity that to me is a safeguarding concern.

Appropriation. Do you even understand safeguarding? Are you now appropriating that word, with so many others, to hope that something will stick on the shit-wall that you're throwing stuff at?

The person you are talking about is a child female humanl. If 80% of those who identify as the 'other gender' detransition, why is it a safeguarding issue that this child is put on a 'watch and wait' pathway?

What would you rather happen?

Child welfare is more important than the wishes of the parents.

Child welfare is vital. Key items that have been shown to reduce child welfare are things like parental Alienation, and confidential disclosure.

That’s why child safeguarding guidelines are so keen on open family involvement and not keeping secrets at school/any other area.

Parents have a duty of care to their children and dereliction of it can be grounds for removal. So don’t paint this as heroic child vs nasty parents please - these are parents striving to have open and honest communication with their child to explore the issues they are facing over identity and puberty. To suggest external agencies should have more influence than parents is dangerous - especially agencies that actively go against child safeguarding best practice by advocating things like confidential disclosure.

The school are jumping the gun here by going against parental wishes.

or do you think confidential disclosure is a good thing?

Try to find out where the school has been getting its advice from - my guess would be a lobby group such as Allsorts or Mermaids. They all peddle the same line based on scaremongering about suicide and so on. The Tavistock, who are experts, recommend a watchful waiting approach.

I think consistency with yourselves and the school is the key and getting your child access to the right support. Mermaids are a charity in this area but as with all charities they need the customers to keep the money rolling in....i would contact tavistock for guidance if they are able to give this without seeing her. I would also let your daughter know that you will support her but that it is best for her to have counselling before socially transitioning as once she joins that club they will make it hard for her to leave , i think people who are 'outsiders' are put on a pedastal in social media world once they come out as a trans, i imagine it can feel as though you 'belong' therefore this increases the likelihood you will continue to feel you are trans plus it must be more difficult to say actually you are just a gnc girl or lesbian once you have made all your friends and family go through the transition with you

snappity you clearly have an agenda here, for transparency would you mind letting us know if you are a mum? Has one of yr kids decided to present as the other sex?

I don’t wish to be intrusive on yr personal life but you seem to be approaching this in an extremely pro trans way. Whereas most parents advocate watch and wait-80% of children desist transitioning after puberty.

Snappity, you’re like a greyhound out of a trap on these threads, peddling your frankly dangerous nonsense.
There’s no question that you have an agenda and I wish you’d take it elsewhere.

What’s your possible reasoning for asserting the child feels unsafe at home? That’s borderline slanderous.

I don’t think you understand what safeguarding actually IS.

Affirmative treatment at school without full consent or consultation with the family risks ‘setting’ the child on a pathway they feel unable to step off. Just like blockers do.

This is clearly a loving and concerned parent trying to do the best for their child. The school should take the lead from the family in consultation with family plus child. That is not happening here.

OP you can see how blinkered a person like snappity is, & we are on a forum of mainly concerned Mums-this is why you need to try & be part of yr daughters online world & counter the narrative that transitioning is the best way forward. Spend some time on YouTube watching what she might be exposed to & you’ll see what I mean. Also as previous posters have suggested might she be ASD?

Children get their sense of self from their environment. If they are at a vulnerable state of development and have an alternative pronoun used and reinforced in multiple settings, they will be inclined to believe that it is the right one for them, even if they are otherwise unsure, especially if it is their nearest and dearest using it.

It would be great if commenters could avoid attacking and threatening the OP on a support thread.

Hoggirl 4thwavenow.com/ is a site full of parents who've been in the situation you're in and might be helpful (though it's US based).