Trans women are women, is the biggest oxymoron ever written.

[happydappy2]

If trans women are women, then why do the words trans women exist? I don't understand how law can not be written in a way that recognises women as women and trans women as trans women.

Thus trans women are treated with respect and dignity, and so are women. This blurring of the lines is helping no one.

Who ever claimed that trans women are women? Unless we can differentiate between the 2 there will always be conflict. Is it too late for reality to kick in here?

Can't remember what it was last time.

Women needed homely spaces because they couldn't hack it in society? Something like that.

Linoleum, I'm not sure that women's spaces were created by women to protect themselves so much as just being tradition or an attempt to preserve modesty in bygone ages when showing a flash of ankle was deemed too racy for public consumption (I could of course be wrong).

I think you should go back to lurking instead of goading.

DelurkinGherkin, could you lay out your contention again, and I will attempt an answer. I think I am probably wasting my time based on your posts, particularly the delightful notion that women wanting privacy and safety is outdated Victoriana, but hey, s'all about the lurkers these days.

Sounds familiar!

We're only a few comments away from 'safeguarding is like racism', I suppose.

Yes delurkin especially as there is little evidence for a biological basis for race

Yet another MRA bingo session, though it's getting boring to be frank.

Then offer a cogent argument based on reason and not emotion/feels.

I just did. It's a bullshit comparison. Are you trying to justify your own racism or get rid of all sex segregation whatsoever? Not clear.

Pretty much there already I think Vicky!

Yet another MRA bingo session, though it's getting boring to be frank.

Be fair - no-one's mentioned intersex people, clownfish or women who've had hysterectomies for quite a while.

Or two spirit Native Americans.

Thing is, racial segregation may be warranted in some places if we lived in a world where say, purple people committed 90% of all violence and 98% of sexual violence, and green people rarely committed either of these crimes but were very very often the victims of them. And the bodies of purple people were very different to the bodies of green people also, so it mdae sense from a privacy and dignity POV aswell as a safety one. Lets also assume that purple people opressed green people sicne the beginning of time, and regularly made sexual coments and such towards green people that mde green people really uncomfortable and such. And when green people reported any of this, they were basically written off, or blamed for the actions of purple people, so green people wanted space way from purple people, for all of the above reasons.

I changed my post to purple/green people so that it was not chopped off and screenshotted in convenient places and shared on twitter as proof that MN want racial segregation...silly that I have to do that as its clearly a hypothetical post, but I know they do shit like that.

Was reading posts too fast, my previous post was on the point that if self ID makes no sense for race (which is a social construct) then no argument for accepting it for sex.

I see the post I was replying to has been deleted. My reply can go too, if you like mods. I should maybe have ignored, but it was just so ridiculous.

Ooh, have we had the women rape too and men commit suicide at a higher rate than women are murdered yet?

I've asked a million times for any term for [we all know who I mean] that doesn't reference their sex if that reference offends them: provided that this term does not appropriate my sex because that offends me.

Answer came there none.

With me you can always just use the word transsexual as that is accurate and presumes nothing and you don't have to add either man or woman.

Let people decide for themselves or think what they wish.

The only problem is that accounts for 4990 of us. Only another 495,000 to find a word for.

I've asked a million times for any term for [we all know who I mean] that doesn't reference their sex if that reference offends them: provided that this term does not appropriate my sex because that offends me.

This is it isn't it. I don't like mine so I'll just take yours. No. Fuck off and stop being so fucking rude.

Transsexual works for me, Homefromthehills. OK, you can't change sex, but the word has a history. I'm old enough to remember when there were only transsexuals and they were nothing like this misogynistic TWAW crew.

Okay, it’s too hot to sleep.

I’m getting it loud and clear from posters that it’s conflating trans and women together in a name that is seen as appropriating space - even though we can agree I’m not a biological woman.

In terms of legalistic terms and names, in that case I’d go with @Homefromthehills suggestion of transsexual.

It feels a bit old school for me but I’m listening and it’s the term used on my diagnosis letters anyway.

Why does the term transsexual being “old school” matter a damn?

Yep, I also agree that reclaiming transexual may be the way to go for people who are genuinely dysphoric.

I accept they don't want to go to men-only spaces, because they don't want to be men; they can't, despite trying, accept themselves as men; they are genuinely traumatised by their own bodies. From what I have seen on here they aren't trying to be women, say they are women, or try to get into women's spaces. Many would be happy with a third space.

Trouble is, they are being shouted down by the M/T/RAs who want to shit on women from a height

I’m getting it loud and clear from posters that it’s conflating trans and women together in a name that is seen as appropriating space

Yes. I won't use this term. I appreciate you listening and thinking again.