Who will get to keep the babies born of prison rape?

[WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice]

Since already identity is more important than sex.

When prisoners are placed in the female estate rather than the male because they identify as female, and perhaps soon natal females will be placed in the male estate because they identify as male, with rape being a fairly common crime perpetrated by people with penises (formally known as males) in prison - prisoners with uteruses (formerly known as women) will most certainly become pregnant within prison walls.

So what do we think will happen to the babies?

Will female prisoners be forced to have abortions?

Will the babies be automatically be taken into state care?

Will there be a demand for these babies because of the shortage of newborns to adopt?

Will there be a pressure on prisoners to turn a blind eye or even be complicit in baby farming to supply the demand?

How is this going to pan out?

Did you mean misandry @deydododatdodontdeydo?

No, misogyny.
It's the same kind of rhetoric you used to hear retired generals come out with about why women aren't allowed in the army.
Poor, delicate women must be protected.
Aw, these poor dears locked away when they're vulnerable, but at least they are so happy because there are no men there.

Your Howard league one doesn't work. Thanks for the guardian one - has there not been improvements since 2009?

This does not answer why was this raised if not to minimise the seriousness of rapists being locked up with women?

BTW - in the Guardian one, I am sure this is how the exploitation /rape of women will be perceived by prisoners- as 'consensual' and 'mutually beneficial'.

There are people who would claim it is patronising or misogyny to have women-only sports too deydododatdodontdeydo

If a transwoman gets a female prisoner pregnant, whether by rape or consensually, that woman could be in for a nightmare in the current political situation with the transwoman being able to claim that the baby will need both their mothers. Maybe more of that horrifying 'breastfeeding via toxic cocktail of drugs' too.

This does not answer why was this raised if not to minimise the seriousness of rapists being locked up with women?

Because you seemed to think that no woman had ever been or got pregnant or given birth in prison ever in the history of womankind. And it was being pointed out to you that this is not new.

That was a wrong assumption. Of course I know about pregnant women in prisons etc and the indignity of giving birth with guards, etc - there was a huge thing about it some years ago.

The thing about rape/impregnation by guards being fairly normal was something of a bold claim and it was used to counter my point that there is a difference between becoming pregnant from prison rape and being pregnant in prison for other reasons.

It was used to minimise my point that babies conceived by prison rape is a big deal.

Also the fact you wrongly assumed this:

"you seemed to think that no woman had ever been or got pregnant or given birth in prison ever in the history of womankind"

Is why you were coming across as so gratingly smug and patronising.

Of all the threads clutching at straws to poke the trans lobby with, this has to be the most ridiculous one yet...

And I think where we differ very widely is you have rock solid faith in the Children's Act being properly adhered to in all circumstances (which to be honest I do find reassuring, considering the climate regarding surrogacy, shit safeguarding at Girl Gides, etc), but you have zero faith in the prison service.

I may be really naive, but I think some women can have a positive experience of prison and guards can be humane, helping turn lives around. I also may be very cynical but I don't 100% trust children's services. Further more I think the reason we have rapists in women''s prisons is because there are devious, rapist psychopaths facilitated by well-meaning gullible idiots, pearl-clutching ostriches, cowardly bystanders and probably misanthropic/misogynist arseholes too.

That comment was for streets not cock

Is why you were coming across as so gratingly smug and patronising.

Seriously??

I think you'd benefit from some time outside in the sunshine but keep flogging this if it floats your boat!

you have rock solid faith in the Children's Act being properly adhered to in all circumstances

And no, I don't. But I reckon it's up to not allowing babies to be farmed for sex abuse

Seriously indeed. Yes. Making wrong assumptions about other people and working to that assumption can come across like that.

Whatever opportunity this thread had to discuss and raise awareness of the issues facing vulnerable women in prison - including but not limited to the addition of male-bodied persons - has long since passed.

Can we not all leave it now?

This is not making edifying reading. And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular: it just isn't.

Can we not all leave it now?

Yeah. I know. I just keep getting dragged back in.

I want to start a new thread at the mo, so I am working on the OP. Trying to salvage the good points from the wreckage.

Excellent. Sunshine and a new thread sound good!

What do you reckon are the key points LangCleg? It is hard to boil down which part is the most important.

It is such a crazy state of affairs, I can't settle on the hinge on which it hangs.

OP you are missing the crucial point that most women in prison have very short sentences ie less than 3 months.

If there are babies conceived by prison rape they won’t be born in prison because the mums will be released by 9 months.