Who will get to keep the babies born of prison rape?

[WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice]

Since already identity is more important than sex.

When prisoners are placed in the female estate rather than the male because they identify as female, and perhaps soon natal females will be placed in the male estate because they identify as male, with rape being a fairly common crime perpetrated by people with penises (formally known as males) in prison - prisoners with uteruses (formerly known as women) will most certainly become pregnant within prison walls.

So what do we think will happen to the babies?

Will female prisoners be forced to have abortions?

Will the babies be automatically be taken into state care?

Will there be a demand for these babies because of the shortage of newborns to adopt?

Will there be a pressure on prisoners to turn a blind eye or even be complicit in baby farming to supply the demand?

How is this going to pan out?

Misery porn fantasy.

I really can't see how this is prurient or enjoying a fucking fantasy.

I find it fucking horrific that women who are mainly victims themselves, often duped or controlled by men end up in prison. Often in a state where they self-harm because their kids are in state care feeling failed on every level, now have fucking dicks to deal with on the inside.

I don't get off on their misery.

@UpstartCrow, can you explain the babies disappearing from care homes thing a bit more? Are people stealing them?

(I have tried googling but can only find stuff about older children)

OK, there are some questions on this thread that are somewhere between batshit conspiracy theorist and down right offensive (there are no "baby farms" to produce babies to sell to naice MC adoptive parents )

Pregnancy in prison is not a new phenomenon at all - it's been something that the system has had to grapple with for as long as it has been locking up women of child-bearing age. In fact, being pregnant has, in times gone by, been advantageous, allowing the death sentence to be commuted for example.

Women enter prison pregnant (knowingly or unknowingly). Women become pregnant in prison (because relationships with prison guards are more common than most would think). The normal processes kick into place, including SS involvement and care orders decided by a judge if appropriate.

Mogle - babies don't disappear from care homes (in the UK) because babies are placed with foster carers

I find it odd that people find it prurient and odd or cheap to actually follow through on the inevitable outcome of putting rapists who identify as women in women's prisons.

Isn't this part of the impact assessment? Safeguarding? Risk assessment?

Ew neeew this it faah to prurient and icky, puts everything in an ugly light.

Ffs

there are no "baby farms" to produce babies to sell to naice MC adoptive parents not currently in th UK that we know about, no, but yes, in the rest of the world. There's been scandals over the years around this issue. For example Chinese babies being stolen and sold to European and American families. Julie Bindel has done research in this area.

It absolutely matters that women already go to prison pregnant or get pregnant in there.

However if the volumes of people with male anatomy to be housed with female prisoners goes up, there needs to be an impact assessment.

In the same way Girl Guides are failing young girls by not telling their parents they will be camping with natal males or performing safe guarding assessments. The prison service need to look at this seriously before there is a huge spike in babies conceived in prison.

Also I don't think people involved in baby farms would see themselves as being part of that. All you need are the circumstances and the subtle cultural pressure.

1. Put vulnerable women in locked places with rapists.
2. Have a culture that may make seeking emergency contraception or abortion awkward.
3. Gently validate the mother's feelings of not wanting to keep the baby conceived through rape whilst gently encourage her to question her desire to keep the baby.
4. Hear heartwarming stories of how parents are overjoyed about their newborn.

It doesn't have to occur by design. It could be fallen into because of the bizarre circumstances of putting rapists in women's prisons.

Adoptive parents are overjoyed about their newborn. Sorry again

Also wrt conspiracy theories, I find it utterly bizarre that, for example, prisoners in Rampton were able to smuggle in an 8 year old girl to be abused on a number of occasions. How did these fuckers manage to control the whole system like that?

When rapists manipulate their way into women''s prisons I seem the same tactics at work, the same gullible staff that think Worboys isn't a threat being played like fiddles.

These manipulative men are not nice people and who knows the limits of their influence on the outside?

The person I am aware of who was pregnant in prison, felt that women should be offered a pregnancy test as routine when being admitted to prison.

If she had been offered one, she might have found out she was pregnant a lot sooner, and been able to make decisions based on that.

Not having easy access to a pregnancy test, and prison officers not taking her health seriously were a huge problem.

She certainly didn't think to ask.

I knew her reasonably well; she wasn't someone to be walked over. She was in her late thirties. Always confident and never afraid to challenge things. Not unintellegent though left school at 16.

She was definitely better equipped and more experience to be able to cope with the situation more than most. Even she struggled.

I'd say it was already a problem with women in prisons being pregnant which wasn't really much on the radar. But once you are in there, there shouldn't be a risk of getting pregnant so a pregnancy test on entry makes a lot of sense in terms of the welfare of women and their children.

Adding a risk of getting pregnant inside prison is not a good one. Who knows there may be women who actively try to get pregnant in order to get moved. There are a lot of very vulnerable women in prison, many with mental problems.

The State has a duty of care here. Many of these women have already been failed repeatedly; this is just another one to add to the list.

It is horrific. Also being removed from your normal circumstances, your own possessions and everything which reminds you of who you are whilst becoming institutionaliased would really affect your ability to make confident judgements about anything - which on the outside might be obvious.

The reason this story is in the news is because prison authorities have failed in their duty of care to women.

But frankly the prison service has a systematic problem with that anyway. It really doesn't need additional factors to make a bad situation worse.

Women getting pregnant in prison, including as a result of rape, is not a new thing.

Women needing health care, including reproductive/sexual health care, in prison is not a new thing.

Women giving birth in prison, to babies that may have been conceived through rape, is not a new thing.

I am in no way in favour of trans women being housed in women's prisons, but this thread feels inappropriate and salacious. Rather than looking at the existing processes in place, the thread has jumped in at the deep end to speculate about the most salacious, titillating possibilities. It doesn't leave a nice taste in the mouth.

I agree with pp - it would be nice if people gave more of a shit about female prisoners generally.

WomanWithAltitude

Women getting pregnant as a result of being raped in prison is a pretty new thing and I believe it needs exploring.

BTW way - giving a shit about women prisoners in this circumstance doesn't mean you don't give a shit in others.

When I went inside a women's prison I was touched by how young most of the women were and how they engaged in innocent flirting and teen-like romances while the female guards looked on affectionately. The feeling of them enjoying respite from the presence of men was palpable.

Sounds idyllic
Maybe we should all get ourselves sent to prison so we can benefit from this man-free utopia amongst all these angels.

Ew neeew this it faah to prurient and icky, puts everything in an ugly light.

Don’t do that.

No-one has said they don't want to be confronted by the reality of life in prison for women. They have said that making up stories is not particularly helpful and doesn't paint the person doing the fantasising in a great light.

And I agree with Olenna that some of the musings here are really offensive and ignorant.

Maybe we should all get ourselves sent to prison so we can benefit from this man-free utopia amongst all these angels.

I don't believe for a second that all women's prisons are like this or I saw more than a slice of what goes on, however there was definitely a vibe that these young women who had been through difficult lives seemed to be regressing because they felt safe to be a bit childish.

Okay CertainHalfDesertedStreets

Do you have any thoughts on the increased (unwanted?) babies being born in prison because rapists are going to be increasingly locked up with women?

Is it tasteless to think about it?

I don't really know what you want from me there

Google was your friend with the question in your OP. There's no need to speculate about what might happen to babies born as a result of the scenario you describe because women have been giving birth in prison since time immemorial.

And it's not tasteless to think about it. But it's tasteless to come up with, and post, this

it could lead to them breeding babies to be sold into sexual abuse

Good God you are patronising.

Google will not tell me about babies who are the result of prison rape, because this thing of putting rapists in the women's estate is pretty new.

OK