Why are femnists such doormats?

[DJLippy]

Firstly, please excuse the clickbait title.

I was wondering if anybody else shared my personal experience in that the most vocal feminists I've known have been treated like shit by men. Not before they became feminists but during and throughout their feminism.

I've lost count of the amount of women for whom the personal is definitely not political. I can hardly speak myself. If I had to describe my type it would be 'secret dickhead type.'

Are feminists more prone to dickhead type men or are we just more aware of the dickhead behavior of our men? Is it causal?

Do feminists love bastards?

Personally, I think strong feminism puts off a lot of men (a bit like 'in your face' veganism) so you're more likely to be left with the desperate and dregs

No I disagree. You’re likely to be left with the sort of man who isn’t threatened by a woman who speaks her mind.

Truly strong men are men who do not need a subservient relationship with anyone in their lives because they’re secure and happy in who they are, and don’t need to feel like they’re the top of any hierarchy by putting others down.
Truly strong people in general tend not to be the stridently loud putting others down, or the violent, or the manipulative.

We all know a few people like this I think. The bloke who is a total rock through absolutely anything. The woman who you can imagine facing down any crisis.

These sorts of people never wish to dominate others, no do they take being dominated by others. They certainly aren’t the dregs. They’re the cream of the crop. They tend not to seek fame.

It definitely does put off men though

Well that’s fine by me. I don’t particularly want to cohabit with a man who sees me as a doormat, or thinks that women are there to service their every need. I’m frankly delighted that such men would give me a wide berth.

It means I’ve ended up with an intelligent, witty, strong husband who is a sound, unflappably rock through all things and sees me as an equal partner in our relationship.

So basically it appears to be arsehole repellent? I’m OK with that.

Totally agree Babel! I hate the competitiveness that comes with a lack of confidence. Give me a laid back, self assured man anytime.

One of my exes once told me that he would be less pissed off about having a shit job if I also had a shit job. Uh.
Boy, bye!

Penis is cheap (free for the asking, in fact) and readily available, so no need to worry to much about telling particular penis owners to piss off. Another one will be along shortly.
Reminds me of Wendy Cope "Bloody men are like bloody busses"

I seem to have arsehole repellent too. Although I wonder if that's my introversion because I really wont spend time with people that I dont really enjoy except my mother because it's just not worth it!

Well that’s fine by me. I don’t particularly want to cohabit with a man who sees me as a doormat, or thinks that women are there to service their every need. I’m frankly delighted that such men would give me a wide berth.

My thoughts precisely.

Who wants a shit penis, anyway?

The upside is that penis is such a low value item and there is such a market glut, there's no harm in being a bit discerning about them.

Never have truer words been spoken! Penis is cheap (free for the asking, in fact) and readily available, so no need to worry to much about telling particular penis owners to piss off. Another one will be along shortly.

FFS this is the only time I have ever spat tea all over my keyboard, always thought it was just something people said to show appreciation. But..yeah. Its real, it seems

DH looks rather sullen that I told him what I was laughing at though, but he did ask

Mind it was not quite as simple as spitting tea, it was a weird snorty thing that seemed to draw tea up my nose chocking me momentarily then came out forcefully in a coughing fit. Not quite as..dainty (if spit can be dainty) as it sounds

Dainty ? We don't do dainty here

Someone on relationships (where there is much wisdom) said something a while back. I paraphrase, but along the lines of:

‘There are three and a half billion men on the planet. You don’t have to settle for a shit one.’

Decent men (and decent people of both sexes in general) treat those around them as valued, as equals, listen to them, do not need to be ‘higher’ than them. They do not need subservience in relationships.

True strength isnt the toxic masculinity we laud in society. It’s the bloke quietly getting up in the night to change nappies or attend a waking toddler then going to work in the morning. It’s men who are supportive of their families through thick and thin. Just men who do what needs to be done without needing a bloody medal for it, because that’s their role as half an equal partnership.

Funnily enough, all the men I know who are like that are fully on board with feminism. It’s the ones who are a bit insecure, and don’t actually like women that much who do the ‘battleax’ thing.

When I first told DH I was a radical feminist he looked a little worried. When I told him what that actually was he just said ‘well none of that is radical, it’s just common sense.’

If a bloke you have your eye on is 'put off' by feminism then a better option would be to sign a 30-year contract for an unpaid cleaning job every evening after work. At least then you won't have to contend with the expectation that you will also provide on-tap emotional labour, household management, childcare and sexual services.

Why do women do it to themselves

I love you LangCleg. Gobby GNC unfuckable-dick-deflater though you may be. Your work here is sterling

There are three and a half billion men on the planet. You don’t have to settle for a shit one.

Problem is some us have been so badly abused as children that the good men won't settle for us. Not saying this is the case for everyone who's experienced childhood abuse but I certainly wasn't in a position in my 20s and early 30s to be in a functional relationship because I was so fucked up myself, and no professionals I saw ever explained to me what was wrong. I have always been a high achiever academically and career-wise though, which I think masked my dysfunction to most people other than in close relationships.

I agree in principal with not settling for a shit relationship, but the problem is that it's not always so black and white in real life and many relationships fall outside of the feminist ideal.

One of my best friend's husband is the CIO of a fairly large firm and she hasn't worked a day in the last seven years (and employs an eastern European cleaner). However, they get on really well and her husband is one of the nicest guys I've ever met despite this setup being rather 'unfeminist'.

One of my best friend's husband is the CIO of a fairly large firm and she hasn't worked a day in the last seven years (and employs an eastern European cleaner). However, they get on really well and her husband is one of the nicest guys I've ever met despite this setup being rather 'unfeminist'.

Enlighten me - which bit isn’t feminist? Her being a sahm, her having a cleaner or the cleaner being from Eastern Europe?

You’re aware that - shock horror! Even housewives can be feminists..?

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but I've encountered individuals who would see this as leeching off her husband - the truth is that they're both happy and it's nobody else's business.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00UGF05UY?tag=mumsnetforum-21

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01LR7M2Q?tag=mumsnetforum-21

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3259958-Matricentric-feminism-the-need-for-feminism-to-recognise-the-experience-of-mothers

This may help those new to FWR and who maybe want to find out a bit more about actual feminism rather than a somewhat peculiar construct of it.

(I think this is quaite the dainty post.)

I think we should go back to talking about the bargain basement penis now.

It's interesting to consider.

Part of it is perhaps that feminists are more likely to notice that sort of behaviour.

But I also think that the sort of misogynistic, condescending arse that comes to mind is the sort that "loves a challenge" and interacting with feminist women provides him with that. Some of my most outspoken feminist friends have married men who started out as the most misogynistic arseholes they knew, me included.

On a more personal note I think I might be guilty as charged All of my boyfriends have been a bit like that, and my DH more so- I think it usually comes paired with other qualities I find attractive.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail.

Will read those links but have posted a couple of my own just to give an idea of the types of opinions I'm talking about.

thoughtcatalog.com/amy-glass/2014/01/i-look-down-on-young-women-with-husbands-and-kids-and-im-not-sorry/

www.nationalreview.com/2017/03/feminist-columnist-stay-home-moms-illegal-australia/amp/

amp.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/7qbw52/being_a_stay_at_home_mom_isnt_that_hard/

I think we should go back to talking about the bargain basement penis now.

Agreed.

I posted this in the apron thread but now I feel the need to crosspost it here.

Sadly sold out and no mention of previous price so I cannot comment on the value-for-money aspect:

shop.herblester.com/products/tip-n-strip-pen

One can have too much penis and thus want penis free days or god forbid, penis free spaces

Feminism isn't about doing what men do (or not). It's about having the freedom to choose.
That freedom is currently curtailed by societal expectation, employment barriers and bullying to name but a few.

Staying at home by choice is entirely different than staying at home as a result of external factors forcing a woman down that path.

Equality doesn't have to mean the same choices and behaviours, only the same opportunities and merit assessments.

One can have too much penis and thus want penis free days or god forbid, penis free spaces.

Couldn't we just put the rubbish ones on eBay?

(Quicker than feministing them into unrubbish ones.)