Why are femnists such doormats?

[DJLippy]

Firstly, please excuse the clickbait title.

I was wondering if anybody else shared my personal experience in that the most vocal feminists I've known have been treated like shit by men. Not before they became feminists but during and throughout their feminism.

I've lost count of the amount of women for whom the personal is definitely not political. I can hardly speak myself. If I had to describe my type it would be 'secret dickhead type.'

Are feminists more prone to dickhead type men or are we just more aware of the dickhead behavior of our men? Is it causal?

Do feminists love bastards?

I think that people and relationships are complicated, and that people compromise to try to be happy.

It's one thing that made me formerly discount feminism actually - the really unhappy hypocrites who seemed to want me to also sacrifice my chances at happiness for the cause, because I owed it to my foremothers. Too much pressure, and love is one hell of a drug! I see now that I took a very immature position! Luckily I ended up with a decent bloke who can handle fiery debates Lol!

I wonder if this could go some way to explaining the women in feminist movements who seem to bend over backwards to center male bodied people...

My iPad is a doormat, it always wants to capitalise the word Male.

But not female. Hmph.

Doormat things
Ipads
Mumsnet
England

Doing all the goading tonight....

2 kinds feminist - those who think we need to rescue and caretake men (libfems) ( many of whom I think have their heart in the place but are still under male conditioning and don't know - to differing extents) and those who centre women - now called radical for sticking to their guns- who have either worked their way out of libfem state or didn't have the same conditioning to start with

So the question is misphrased and hence victim blaming - why do predatory men target feminists is the question to ask

Predatory men, as thebewilder accurately observed, target the prizes - those successful women who are also feminists. Great cover for them. Gradually over time they dupe the feminist into centring them even more and the undue influence starts to show - Laci Green comes to mind who last I read had been targeted and hooked by MRA- her work reflects his influence now unfortunately and she's unaware of his coercive control cos "love"

That's our socialisation as little girls, constantly reinforced everywhere , both me and my G/F Jo had to put up with that bullshit by getting married to men, neither of us lasted more than a few years ,
just don't reinforce stereotypes on your daughters,

I get on better with my neice than she does with her mother for exactly this reason

Sweeping generalisation based on???

We are all fundamentally flawed individuals and being a feminist does not mean that everyone gets everything right all the time.

How many feminists did you conduct interviews with to come to your conclusion?

Funny thread!!

I agree womanformallyknownaswoman and that women come to feminism in so many ways; from having had wonderful role models, to having had terrible experiences.

Can't say I recognise your scenario OP.

I think some 'mixed up' men can be attracted to a woman with good boundaries, self esteem, etc but then when in the relationship the old conditioning appears and he feels inferior when he has been led to believe he should be superior. It messes with his head and not all can work through it.

Narcs of course would seek a good strong woman for the initial reflected glory then be unable to help but bring her down. Narcs thrive on being adaptive and deceptive (maybe a little bit badboy but not overtly so) and so the unfamiliar or trusting would be easy prey.

thebewilderness: Turns out that abusive men target Feminists for their con game.
Scores higher in the male dominance sociopath competition if you can deceive a professional woman, a high achievement woman, or a Feminist.

and

woman: So the question is misphrased and hence victim blaming - why do predatory men target feminists is the question to ask

Predatory men, as thebewilder accurately observed, target the prizes - those successful women who are also feminists. Great cover for them. Gradually over time they dupe the feminist into centring them even more and the undue influence starts to show

Yep, yep and yep!

I don’t think I’m attracted to bad boys, but I definitely think that fiery, gobby me has historically attracted quite a few men who sought to tame me.

They weren’t particularly successful though, as I am now up to husband number 3, having developed quite the form for dropping male ballast whenever it felt too restricting (I’ve left 2 husbands, a fiancé and a live in boyfriend).

Husband number 3 is 3rd times the charm. We’ve arrived at each other through a process of elimination and wereb41 & 48 on our wedding day. We recycled our original wedding witnesses because friendship often outlasts romance.

Hopefully this will be it now because I cannot be arsed with Tinder or other new fangled dating stuff.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hktHI4fGydE

Maybe sometimes it just doesn't work out and both sides find it easier to attach blame to feminism. It seems that being a feminist can become the very definition of a woman (by a man) when there's a hell of a lot more to someone. Admittedly it is a pretty fundamental attribute but it isn't all she is.
I still find it strange that feminism is often viewed as a little bit extreme and associated with overly shouty women. It should be the de facto standpoint for any decent man or woman, and ought not to have a name.
I've yet to meet anybody who can justify any other view.

I agree with bewilderness
There are def men out there who want to dominate/control women they are intimated by and they are likely to find feminists intimidating.

There is also a third option which is some women become feminist due to a lifetime of shit from men making them seek an explanation.

Hope everyone's heads are ok this morning

Do bad boys create feminists?

For me I became a feminist because of DA from my father. This also meant I had no model of what a positive relationship looked like (we were also quite isolated as a family) and I self medicated my emotional regulation issues with drink so I was a bit "wild", which both led to poor relationship choices. Also because I was a feminist I thought I was strong enough to change them. So I think there is a link for me - or at least was - I wouldn't do that now.

I fuckeddated arseholes from my teens to my twenties. I think because I was overweight and thought sex might make attractive enough to love. But I made almost all those decisions being super drunk. Then I met my partner and he’s not an arsehole. He’s supportive and thoughtful and kind. I could ask him for the moon and he’d try and get it. He’s also clever and creative. He a good talker and good listener. When things are tough we pull together. We’ve had some difficult times and together we find a way to have joy and love.

And I’m a feminist. So I think for me the dickhead phase was about learning I was ok myself.

You what, mate?

No, feminist don't love bastards. We may be better at identifying them than the average women, which may influence how we talk about our exes. Or you may be in need of turning down the judgyness just a teensy bit.

Men definitely find arguing with feminists a turn on. They have Patriarchy's backing of millions of lies and suppressed truths to fire back at you when you are armed with only the truth. They fancy themselves as a matador. It's a thrill they can back out of at any moment. For the feminist she is fighting for her life.

Also there are feminists and then there are "feminists" of the "everything a woman does is empowering, especially stripping and sex she doesn't actually enjoy but that makes men think she's a Cool Girl". The latter group may well end up dating some very unpleasant men in their quest to heal the wounded male souls (ie pathological narcissists and other blokes who're less wounded bird and more emotional vampire).

Magazine friendly liberal feminism has a lot to answer for, imo.

Sweeping generalisations with a dash of conspiracy theory and the perennial favourite that radical feminists are so much better than liberal feminists.

Although apparently radical feminism doesn't provide the tools to spot these predatory hunters of alpha female radical feminists until they are actually in their clutches.

Morning! Hope heads are doing as well as can be expected!

I honestly found that being a bit GNC, a bit feminist and a bit gobby meant that fewer blokes fancied me, but those that did were less likely to be arseholes.

I honestly found that being a bit GNC, a bit feminist and a bit gobby meant that fewer blokes fancied me, but those that did were less likely to be arseholes.

Same on the gobby part (not particularly GNC looking as an adult), I found that most arseholes didn't even try, and the ones that did were fairly easy to scare off.

Nope. Never understood why women like men who are horrible to them. I like a nice man who makes me laugh and believes women are equal to men.

Men definitely find arguing with feminists a turn on. They have Patriarchy's backing of millions of lies and suppressed truths to fire back at you when you are armed with only the truth. They fancy themselves as a matador. It's a thrill they can back out of at any moment. For the feminist she is fighting for her life.

Agree with this.

Same on the gobby part (not particularly GNC looking as an adult), I found that most arseholes didn't even try, and the ones that did were fairly easy to scare off.

I got called lesbian or unfuckable fairly often though!

The upside is that penis is such a low value item and there is such a market glut, there's no harm in being a bit discerning about them.

There is a certain type of abuser whose MO is grinding down strong women. I’ve seen women friends tangle with these types and come out very badly. I don’t think any mindset is absolute proof against them and I’m very wary of placing the blame for it on the woman or her ‘type’ of feminism.