FWR more unpleasant than ever

[Snappity]

The Talk Guidelines have done little to improve things. The majority of threads are about trans matters and very few, if any, positive. Misgendering is increasingly rife. "They" for a trans woman is as bad as "he".

Even the sex of trans women with female birth certificates is not respected.

There is post after post that trans women are not women and that sex is biological and cannot be changed (totally ignoring that many aspects of sex can be changed).

Then increasingly material from elsewhere which is anti-trans is being linked.

While individual comments are fair enough, the sheer volume means that FWR is a thoroughly unpleasant place for the majority of trans people and those of us who have trans family members.

Intersex women are also repeatedly disrespected with frequent posts that women are XX or are those with female reproductive capacity. It is hugely offensive.

I am going to be here less. The harassment - and I think that is what it is - has driven me away. It is a shame because trans and intersex feminists - indeed trans inclusive feminists - should be as welcome here as any other feminists. If MumsNet believes in debate that means ensuring that one side isn't shouted down - and the sheer volume of people saying that trans women are not women and belong in male spaces (because anyone "male" is a risk to women) is shouting down the other side of the debate.

FWR needs to regain a balance.

[R0wantrees]

Great to see you here Lisa and thank you.

link to current thread discussing systemic safeguarding failures:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo


Concerns raised on MN FAO Women's & Equalities' Dept:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3297184-Your-comments-for-Penny-Mordaunt

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3297067-Mumsnet-moderation-response-to-yesterdays-feedback

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

Lovely to see you Lisa; great posts.

I have been AWOL for the last few days so am catching up now.

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

I've been spending the last few days off MN and doing some RL activism and volunteering. I went to one of the Anti-Trump protest marches on Friday, which was great. Very good atmosphere, loads of kids and young people there which was brilliant. Also a massive number of older people - some of whom had the most amazing banners and signs that they'd made themselves.

I particularly liked the fact that many of them were attached to umbrellas - thus addressing concerns about the weather and the torrential downpour which ended up happening later that evening

[Bespin]

Well that was a thread and a half lost it a bit when it went all sporty and I really hope snappy is OK and maybe they will return after a spell away. I'm always interested to read your posts Lisa.

[Voice0fReason]

Thank you Lisa

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

But it made me think about how important it is that people are able to have a voice and that they are able to peacefully discuss and protest things which concern them. Friday evening was a very safe atmosphere. There were some police liaison officers and a few mounted police - the horses were getting lots of fussing and attention!

What a difference when you compare it to the situation we are in with the GRA. Women are being harassed, threatened, assaulted, doxxed and abused for saying that being a woman is not a feeling.

[boatyardblues]

I may have missed it, but did we work out why women's sport was patronising? Is it because the butch physicality interferes with our innate fragile lady essence?

Didn’t that US sprinter Flo Jo have fabulous nails? I don’t think sport and laydee glamour are mutually exclusive.

Thank you Lisa for the grown up posts just upthread too.

[LaSquirrel]

I would think we could field a team for some sort of sport where the goalposts were constantly shifted and the rules continuously changed by some capricious and demanding set of rules. Possibly we could just call it 'Being female in 2018'

Gets my vote Should1

[shitsgettingreal]

Women's sports are so patronising?

Then why do transwomen keep entering them?

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

I'm not sure why it would be considered patronising - unless it's a view from someone who thinks that equality means treating everybody in exactly the same way, rather than making adjustments to give everyone the same shot at a fair outcome.

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

Good point shits (I lolled typing your NN)

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

We need to keep speaking up. To keep educating. To keep going.

[LaSquirrel]

With all this talk of 'ducking under bars' - won't anyone please identify as a duck? Otherwise, FWR comes off as looking Duckist, and you just know it will be reported to our handlers at Twitter.

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

I like eating duck too much to identify as one

[Bespin]

OMG love duck in plum sauce

[ToeToToe]

Lisa - really appreciate you being here. Long been an admirer, and v impressed with your turn at the WNTT event. Thank you - it gave me some hope.

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

Yes, we definitely need more articulate women like Lisa.

[NewbieSpartacus]

FloJo died though so we better be careful.

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

Or quacktivists, if you will.

[NewbieSpartacus]

Ducking hell resistance that's a leap innit?

[ToeToToe]

lost it a bit when it went all sporty

Why? Are we not allowed to speak up (and, even jest a bit) when someone says "women's sports are patronising" ?

What sort of response should that statement receive on Mumsnet? Women's sport is incredibly important to me. I love sport myself, and encourage my children (including a daughter) to partake.

I particularly love Wimbledon - but Venus Williams herself admits she would barely be in the top 200 players if tennis was mixed sex. Women's professional tennis would be eliminated.

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

Being a woman is not a feeling.

A woman is an adult human female.

Feminism is the fight to liberate girls and women from patriarchal structures which restricts us and discriminates against us. It does not and can never “centre” males, regardless of what they look like or how they claim to feel.

Claiming a woman’s lived experience as your own when you are not female, is appropriation.

We will not be silenced nor will we bow down to male oppression - whatever form it takes. So, go well, wherever you go.

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

Just wanted to pop it in again

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

Being a woman is not a feeling.

A woman is an adult human female.

Feminism is the fight to liberate girls and women from patriarchal structures which restricts us and discriminates against us. It does not and can never “centre” males, regardless of what they look like or how they claim to feel.

Claiming a woman’s lived experience as your own when you are not female, is appropriation.

We will not be silenced nor will we bow down to male oppression - whatever form it takes. So, go well, wherever you go.

[LangCleg]

This thread quacked me up!