FWR more unpleasant than ever

[Snappity]

The Talk Guidelines have done little to improve things. The majority of threads are about trans matters and very few, if any, positive. Misgendering is increasingly rife. "They" for a trans woman is as bad as "he".

Even the sex of trans women with female birth certificates is not respected.

There is post after post that trans women are not women and that sex is biological and cannot be changed (totally ignoring that many aspects of sex can be changed).

Then increasingly material from elsewhere which is anti-trans is being linked.

While individual comments are fair enough, the sheer volume means that FWR is a thoroughly unpleasant place for the majority of trans people and those of us who have trans family members.

Intersex women are also repeatedly disrespected with frequent posts that women are XX or are those with female reproductive capacity. It is hugely offensive.

I am going to be here less. The harassment - and I think that is what it is - has driven me away. It is a shame because trans and intersex feminists - indeed trans inclusive feminists - should be as welcome here as any other feminists. If MumsNet believes in debate that means ensuring that one side isn't shouted down - and the sheer volume of people saying that trans women are not women and belong in male spaces (because anyone "male" is a risk to women) is shouting down the other side of the debate.

FWR needs to regain a balance.

I know Red but I'm in a good mood today so I'm going with Gandhi.

And I've just realised I wasn't going to come back to this thread so I'm off.

Women's sports are patronising as fuck
What next?
Women’s health is patronising as fuck?
Women’s rights are patronising as fuck?

Men worry so much about women gathering alone to talk, because they know what they talk about and say when they aren't around women. Similar to how cheaters are constantly paranoid about their partner cheating on them.

Women's sports are patronising as fuck

What next?
Women’s health is patronising as fuck?
Women’s rights are patronising as fuck?

This kind of comment might well be among the next moves of the activists - push the idea that it's somehow 'anti-feminist/equality/etc' to have women's sports, etc.

Women being pregnant is patronising as fuck.
Women giving birth is patronising as fuck.

Women cleaning toilets however......dad on, hen, we'll just watch.

Vicky - yes this will be the next step. The men's rights movement is all over this like a rash for this reason.

Definitely. If you're going to be drowned / hung in any case, you may as well face it knowing they all think you really did blight the harvest and kill the best cow.

There are parallels. If even people who have always defended trans rights are being told that they are still evil witchy [banned word] for using the wrong words to describe themselves / not wanting to be coerced into sex / wanting to acknowledge biology, then, at some stage, they do just throw up their hands and go full GC.

Women being pregnant is patronising as fuck
I’m pregnant right now, how fucking patronised I feel. Is it me, my DH or the baby who is the most patronising in this situation? Who can I write to?

Sadly I must also send my apologies for the annual general meeting for the greatest sport ever Low T Ducking Under this evening because I’m too rotund to even get my sandles on, let alone bend down in the name of sport.
Patronising as fuck.

This kind of comment might well be among the next moves of the activists - push the idea that it's somehow 'anti-feminist/equality/etc' to have women's sports, etc.

YY.

I may have missed it, but did we work out why women's sport was patronising? Is it because the butch physicality interferes with our innate fragile lady essence? Or is because, bless us, well never be as good as the boys and it's just humouring us? It's quite Victorian...

Cath, you need to invent pregnant lady sport. Two big patronising red flags in one! They'll combust.

Alice I think we have to stick to what we're naturally good at. Like ducking under bars, and all the other marvellous suggestions everyone came up with last night.

Apparently, no men will want to compete against us in breastfeeding whilst changing the tv channel.

Bet there wouldn't have been many men self-identifying as women in the days when they ducked you in the nearest river...

Cath, you need to invent pregnant lady sport. Two big patronising red flags in one! They'll combust.

I could come top at applying topical treatments to my rubbed raw thighs whilst using the nit comb on a 4 year old and ordering a supermarket shop and meal planning from my phone...all which heartburn.

Yip alice that's just about where I am at the minute. I've tried to be totally inclusive and I have used the right pronouns and said TWAW except the lawful excemptions and I'm still getting slaughtered and miscalled and misquoted and misassigned to the GC camp. Might as well fucking be one if I'm going to be assigned a group I don't want to be in anyway.

Uglycathkidstonbag Congratulations! In order to meet your needs, I suggest we ask the IOC to put "Getting on with your life whilst carrying a watermelon inside your abdomen" into the programme for the next games.

Ah! I see. I always liked the shocking delivery men by answering door with baby still attached champion stakes. And mopping up baby's bottom before the dog ate it sprint.

mopping up baby's bottom before the dog ate it sprint.

I’ve failed at this before now, I feel patronised at the very notion.

Don't know about the other pregnant ladies, but when I was a pregnant lady, there is no way I could have done the ducking under bars event. Exclusionary AF

Crawling possibly?

I've never been pregnant. I feel excluded.

To be completely honest, I failed too. But it did inspire my favourite (and unintentional) response to a cold caller: "can't talk! Dog is eating a nappy and we're all covered in pooh!". I just shout that now if I get asked if I want to claim for an accident that wasn't my fault. I may be on a list.

I haven't read the thread, but I'm getting sick of all the trans threads on here in truth. I think a transwoman seeing my tits in the changing room would probably be less painful than having to pick through all the trans threads on here!

I haven't read the thread, but I'm getting sick of all the trans threads on here in truth

That explains why this is your first ever post then?

think a transwoman seeing my tits in the changing room would probably be less painful than having to pick through all the trans threads on here

Which isn't what it is about, so maybe you should actually read some of the posts you are whining about.

Going by their contributions in the other thread, if Coco is female I'm Kate Middleton's secret Mumsnet account.

But if a public site's posting and moderation policy means that 99% of posts are so aggressively against a particular religion that most members of that religion don't feel comfortable using the site - or a particular part of a site - isn't that indirect discrimination by the site which could change it's moderation policy to restore a better balance?

Wee bit late for this 36 pages but actually, posters regularly denounce the sexism is in every major religion on this site as it affects women. I don't think MNHQ have ever told us we can't discuss it because it offends adherents. Maybe because they don't hassle MNHQ and their sponsors incessantly? It's only the transreligion that can't handle being called out on its misogyny.