#notalltranswomen

[BadasIwannaB]

An argument people often make when women voice their concerns about women only spaces:

‘Well hang on a second, I know quite a few trans women and they are just considerate nice people who just want to get on with their lives etc.’

Why can’t people see that this is spectacularly missing the point in just the same way as arguing ‘well NOT ALL MEN are [rapists/sexual harassers/misogynists/a danger to women]’?

I mean, I’m friends with a lot of men - they aren’t all bad. I’m even in an intimate relationship with one. But would that be a legit rebuttal to the arguments that women should have protected spaces without men? Clearly not! I’m not insulting my (or your) friends who are men, or implying men are all rapists etc. by agreeing that women should have protected spaces without men in them.

Similarly, then, why think that those who argue that these protected spaces should not be available to trans women must be assuming that all trans women are rapists/sexual harrassers etc., and must be saying something that’s terribly insulting to their (or your) friends who are trans women?

What's with the continual ha ha tho

If I'm wrong there'd be no need to desperately project mantras on buildings.

Yes now is our chance. Lets not blow it by concentrating our efforts on discrediting gender. Lets focus our efforts on making sure sex is secure

Interesting. It looks like feminists' accurate descriptions of gender as stereotypes are having an impact. People are starting to understand that 'gender identity' is merely a preference for the stereotypes of one sex over the other.

We should press on with showing up 'gender' for what it is.

@longtimelurkingtrans: every voice counts. Tthank you for your support.

Have you any thoughts on how reasonable voices like yours can make yourselves heard in the current climate? It seems pretty important. Because I was talking to my son's girlfriend last night and she was saying how concerned the young, very dysphoric transwomen she knows are about the backlash that seems inevitable when the public finally lose patience with the aggressive transactivists.

It's something we often raise here - a concern for what are now called truscum.

This ..

Yes now is our chance. Lets not blow it by concentrating our efforts on discrediting gender. Lets focus our efforts on making sure sex is secure

...Is basically the old 'don't worry, the Equality Act will save us' which was a TRA narrative (parroted by government) in the last two months since feminist campaigning around Self ID began to bite.

It's a lie, and the Equality Act doesn't even protect us now. After self ID it would be a nightmare, and the exemptions targeted by TRA very quickly.

Gender should not be enshrined in law, and by getting us to focus on sex, TRA hope to enshrine gender in law while we aren't looking.

Let's not be distracted.

I don't know what your agenda is, GardenGeek, because you're not making a lot of sense. But it appears to be, at least in part, an attempt to persuade us to follow a line of argument that doesn't represent what gender critical feminists think about sex or gender.

People suddenly upping the pressure on this board. You don't need to be paranoid to know women have rattled a few cages recently. Hurray for us!

Prawn and bewilder, I've just started a thread on why gender shouldn't be enshrined in law, pls contribute if you can. Thank you! I'm having to stop posting very shortly.

If I've misunderstood you I apologise garden, but I disagree with you very much indeed.

GardenGeek, I know you've been around for ages. It's just I find myself in quite heated opposition to what you're saying nowadays. It's like you've had a personality transplant.

No I won't change my mind.

Yes because I went to Twitter and I despaired.

People are talking at cross purposes and its as if the arguments are set up that way.

They all come back to TWAW.

Remember that 1) only a minority of people use twitter 2) TRAs are employed at twitter and TRAs use reporting systems, blockers, bots, etc to ban and silence gender critical voices and disproportionately amplify their own. 3) it is a waste of time arguing with brainwashed illogical crazies. You will never get anywhere. 4) people are afraid to admit they agree with gender critical voices .

You have been fooled by the stage managed discourse. Only 18% of people are taken in by it.

Why not concentrate your efforts on the 82% instead?

Garden Geek I have just read through your points and while I obviously don't agree in your aims, I can see the point you are making. If I was going to fight for sex segregation I would want to make sure they are two distinct things that could be treated separately the issue with the GRA is that it is the place where they come together due to the fact our social and legal system is still based very much on a binary sexed system and gender expression does not fit into that so it's fudged together. But what would I know about these things. I wish you luck in trying to convince people a lot of people's thinking is now fixed on both sides though I thing ultimately we will get to that point in future as you say where sex and gender are detangled in law.

also I'm. sorry as now no one will think you are right now as I have agreeded with you lol