#notalltranswomen

[BadasIwannaB]

An argument people often make when women voice their concerns about women only spaces:

‘Well hang on a second, I know quite a few trans women and they are just considerate nice people who just want to get on with their lives etc.’

Why can’t people see that this is spectacularly missing the point in just the same way as arguing ‘well NOT ALL MEN are [rapists/sexual harassers/misogynists/a danger to women]’?

I mean, I’m friends with a lot of men - they aren’t all bad. I’m even in an intimate relationship with one. But would that be a legit rebuttal to the arguments that women should have protected spaces without men? Clearly not! I’m not insulting my (or your) friends who are men, or implying men are all rapists etc. by agreeing that women should have protected spaces without men in them.

Similarly, then, why think that those who argue that these protected spaces should not be available to trans women must be assuming that all trans women are rapists/sexual harrassers etc., and must be saying something that’s terribly insulting to their (or your) friends who are trans women?

We need to reclaim sex as distinct and the only way to do that is to acknowledge the existing gender characteristic in EA.

Gender is not a protected characteristic under the EA. Gender reassignment is. Read it yourself.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/4

But you’re talking about enshrining gender in law by itself. The EA currently makes provision for sex and those in the process of obtaining/those who have GRC - a lot of people argue that the GRA was poorly thought out legislation and needs to be amended (or scrapped in some cases). If everyone has the right to a gender, how do you propose stopping people from being forced into accepting gender roles? All it does is reinforce the horrible “this is for boys/girls” attitude.

'Then we fight equally, not only for the right for sex to be applied independently of gender, but for gender to be applied independently for sex.'

Why would feminists fight for gender? We have enough on our plates without trying to prop up 'Gender'.

Gender really is a waste of time and actually what about non-binary? Better to encourage safe third spaces for all who want then including trans and non-binary people and anyone else too.

I have to agree with @CanineEnigma 'If everyone has the right to a gender, how do you propose stopping people from being forced into accepting gender roles? All it does is reinforce the horrible “this is for boys/girls” attitude.'

Gender really is a hiding to nothing because even trans people don't want to stick to prescribed gender 'norms'.

Gender is in their head it doesn't need to manifest in any way. How can you legislate for what is in someone's head?

Look at those countries that have really strict blasphemy laws, see what even people thinking you are a blasphemer might mean! All based on what is in or might not be in,people's heads!

We cannot legislate for that.

And actually now so many people are claiming to be so many things (dragon, tiger etc) how can the law support whatever someone says they are!

Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex and must be treated accordingly?
It is a belief that no one actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?
How will they punish the non believers and heretics who speak out?
Will we return to the burning times?

GardenGeek, I ask in a spirit of clarification - why do you always appear to be attempting to convince women, with your multiple consecutive posts, to pacify and appease men? Why?

You may think that; but to me, such attitudes indicate desperately throwing other women under buses in order to get patted on the head by those who oppress us.

So, is "getting women swipe" at you, some sort of competitive sport in which you indulge, then? You are not alone in that! I just find it weird, that's all.

We will resist. We will not submit.

I am proposing, that instead of fighting a hierarchy. We force the building of a new one, by breaking it in half.

No. It isn't going to work.

What does that say? I’m not sure. But I can’t help but think there’s a fundamental incompatibility in having sex based protections - to prevent individuals from being discriminated against on the basis of their biological sex, aka gendered treatment - while sinultaneously legally enshrining gender stereotypes which could very easily enable an employer to say “your job will no longer be available after your maternity leave”, because gender roles.

Simultaneously....