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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are we the baddies?

454 replies

DJLippy · 09/07/2018 18:27

Are we the baddies?

Are Terf's as bad as everybody seems to say?

Are we on the wrong side of history?

Anyone ever stop to ask themselves this or is it just me?

OP posts:
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7
Baroquehavoc · 09/07/2018 23:55

BeyondRaggydoll congratulations!

Your opinion is now valid.

BeyondRaggydoll · 09/07/2018 23:55

It's weird how trans is apparently a kind of intersex according to some people, yet actual intersex women are frequently taller because of their genetics, rather than shorter.

Snappity · 09/07/2018 23:56

No Snappity love. We're not going to give up our rights. Bless your heart, how long have you been gadflying round these parts and you havent heard that word enough?

So it is about asserting privilege then?

BeyondRaggydoll · 09/07/2018 23:56

My dad is short. He's now my mum.
My mum is also short, so still my mum too.

AngryAttackKittens · 09/07/2018 23:56

Wait, if I wear enormous platforms am I allowed to have my opinions count? Oh happy day! I mean, I'll look like I'm auditioning for a KISS tribute band, and that may undermine my new authority a bit, but still, it's worth a try.

BesmirchingMotherhood · 09/07/2018 23:57

I think Snap might have been hoping for something screenshot worthy there with that question, so Snap could take to Twitter and denounce us all.

AngryAttackKittens · 09/07/2018 23:58

Still trying, but hey, if Snap wants to post random chat about how tall we all our and our various ways of coping with that on Twitter then have it it, mate.

BeyondRaggydoll · 09/07/2018 23:59

My trans man friend is a proper dwt. I will be letting twitter know that snappity misgendered him. Bloody mn transphobia

BesmirchingMotherhood · 09/07/2018 23:59

I’m so tall I sometimes wear trousers.

exaspirational · 10/07/2018 00:00

Who is saying that those people of the male sex who present in clothes different from the average person of that sex won't any longer be able to use the single-sex spaces aimed at males?

FloralBunting · 10/07/2018 00:00

Snappity the rights of women and girls are not privileges. It's sad for you that you seem to fetishize 'womanhood' to the point that you see our basic, hard won rights as a 'privilege' which must be overcome, but I can't help you with that, I'm afraid.

There places you are not allowed, and things you are not allowed to do. I have to explain this to my dog and my kids. It's tiresome that I have to explain this to grown adults too.

AngryAttackKittens · 10/07/2018 00:01

Well, some men, apparently. I think those men should stop being such pricks and leave men who don't dress like them in peace.

UpstartCrow · 10/07/2018 00:02

I can't be doing with these arbitrary rules based on looks, when we are concerned about giving women somewhere private so they can miscarry Angry

BeyondRaggydoll · 10/07/2018 00:02

If only someone had told the lesbian women at pride that they couldn't discriminate by sex, but under 5'8 was acceptable.

AngryAttackKittens · 10/07/2018 00:04

It really is an odd spot to set the bar at, 1 inch under the average male height. I guess being 5ft8 is something for a man to be ashamed of in Devoted to Stereotypes Land.

FloralBunting · 10/07/2018 00:05

My DP is an inch shorter than me. I've sent him to sleep on the sofa tonight so I can assert my privilege in the double bed without his sweaty self spreadeagled all over it.

BeyondRaggydoll · 10/07/2018 00:06

On an actual serious note, has someone investigated the causality of short males feeling they have to be female? That looks sadly likely to me, I know many shorter man who have issues with emasculation from it.

BeyondRaggydoll · 10/07/2018 00:08

1 inch under? So ball park figure based on standard distribution, 40% of men are women?

AngryAttackKittens · 10/07/2018 00:20

Does kind of seem that way on Twitter sometimes.

DJLippy · 10/07/2018 00:26

Stop being Goady Snapitty.
What's wrong with a third space? Third gender. Traswomen are transowmen. Non-binary is a valid identity. Services built around this? Prison spaces free from male violence. Rape & homeless services built around you -whoever you might be - around your own particular needs? Always respecting female need for a space away from male violence - politics lade aside...

This is the only way forward. Third space all the way!

OP posts:
ijustwannadance · 10/07/2018 00:29

Fuck off with the 'privilege' bullshit.
And the bullshit claims that trans women are the most vulnerable people on the fucking planet.

TornFromTheInside · 10/07/2018 00:42

We still haven't enough protections for women in this country (or anywhere the world as far as I'm aware), but we have some.

I have every sympathy that transpeople also require protections and I am in favour of creating as many as are necessary to protect them too.

However, whilst we figure out the precise nature of those protections, I am not in favour of stealing the existing rights of biological women and handing them over to transpeople. Why not? because it's abundantly clear (to me) that sharing or transferring those rights effectively compromises the rights and safety of those biological women.

I am 100% behind an inclusive society that allows anybody to adopt whatever gender they choose. I'm slightly disappointed that people feel a need to adopt an agenda though, rather than just be themselves - effeminate or masculine, or more accurately just 'somewhere' on a scale of human characteristics.

What I am completely against however, is a very male centric mindset amongst TRAs that seeks to impose their will with a blatant disregard for the rest of society.
'I want' = 'I must have at any cost'. That appears (to my mind) to be the attitude of TRAs.

Rather than actually listen and learn something from women who've endured (and continue to endure) incredible levels of sexism / prejudice - a plight TRAs also suffer, they've chosen to make enemies of those women who refuse to yield to every demand TRAs make.

They act like bullies, male bullies. It belies the true nature of themselves - as men.
Their claim of being women in the most complete terms becomes demonstrably implausible.

Women fighting for their rights are not wrong. They are not wishing to take away the rights of transpeople. They are not anti-trans.
Women who choose not to have sex with penis owners are not wrong to make this choice. They are not anti-trans any more than a vegetarian is anti-pig for not wishing to consume it.

I feel for those transpeople that are are trying to live their lives in an already difficult world, and where undoubtedly they face serious prejudice. I feel they are being misrepresented and done a grave disservice by the more vociferous and aggressive TRA's who claim to speak on behalf of them.

It's a measure of some of the women here that they do pause to question what they believe. That they reevaluate what's right and wrong.
But I hope they come back with a resounding confirmation that they are not wrong.

They are not the enemy of transpeople, they are an ally to humanity.
They extend an open hand, and TRA's extend a fist.
They open their hearts and minds, and what do TRA's do - they simply demand they open their legs to accept their cocks too.

TornFromTheInside · 10/07/2018 00:45

*adopt an agenda

NotTerfNorCis · 10/07/2018 01:09

I know the thread's moved on, but in answer to the OP...

I have asked myself how I would feel if it were proven that there are male and female brains, and trans people are born with the brain structure of the opposite sex. There was an article in the Telegraph recently which suggested something along those lines. But so far the evidence for innate gendered brains is controversial, let alone for female brains in male bodies. I also haven't seen convincing evidence of trans people naturally acting like their adopted sex. In fact they tend to retain the behaviours of their born sex, whether it's career orientation, criminality or assertiveness. They often say that taking hormones has quite an impact on the way they feel, and they usually have to learn how to act like the opposite sex - how to move, speak etc. That seems to show that they don't really have the brain of the opposite sex, just a conviction that they do.

Anyway, supposing it were proven, I would still not accept that people can be 'born in the wrong body', or that a penis can be female. A man with a female-typical brain structure is still a man, just an unusual kind of man.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/07/2018 01:16

That's a pretty inspirational post, Torn.

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