Are we the baddies?

[DJLippy]

Are we the baddies?

Are Terf's as bad as everybody seems to say?

Are we on the wrong side of history?

Anyone ever stop to ask themselves this or is it just me?

Nah, I notice the short ones too, there are just less of them.

Snappity it’s delusional to think that there are loads of trans women who easily pass as women and we just haven’t noticed them. Very very few do.
To be fair, if someone has removed their penis and had full reassignment surgery I would feel differently about eg prison. But the majority haven’t. How does someone with a fully intact penis experience life as if they were a woman.
Also if there were third spaces they wouldn’t have to be in with the men would they? Why can trans women say they don’t want to share spaces with men but women can’t say they don’t want to share spaces with trans women?

Also, tall women exist! They look like women who are very tall and I do not mistake them for being male, because I have working eyeballs.

I have to wonder what bearing height has on whether or not we have interrogated ourselves on our own personal positions on the GC spectrum. But y'know, being a biological elitist, I'd probably forgotten that bit of the self-interrogation.

LangCleg, I believe Snappity likes to help us along in our examination by providing helpful snippets of scienceish. Hence the breakthrough discovery of the secret short trabswoman, which will no doubt give you a few sleepless nights as you ponder your elitist bias against the short...

A penis is feminine if it's on a man who's under 5ft8? I know quite a few men who'd be bristling at that idea.

5'8" is awfully specific. Is that a cut off point?

Fucking hell...literally crying with laughter at the latest lady dick news...

What happens if I go. somewhere and for cost or space reasons a venue does not have this third option what do I do then?

You explain to the service provider your position. People have an innate sense of the threat that trans folk experiences due to their inter-gender presentation. The service provider should be legally required to provide a safe space for you. That's my position. Service providers to accommodate those who present in a gender non-conforming manner...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrzKAw2Itg0

Must. Not. Post. Must. Go. To. Bed.

(DH is a short arse. PMSL.)

I also constantly re-examine my own views on these issues - they are the result of years of thinking and reading and agonising. It's impossible not to do all that when you find yourself bewilderingly out of step with the 'official right-on lefty line' and that is your background.

Increasingly though I've started to find that many more of my friends from similar backgrounds have been coming to the same conclusions I have: namely that this is not a simple issue of worthy progressives versus evil reactionary terfy bigots. It's more complicated than that, needs more thought, and the rights of women and girls are threatened enough by the world some transactivists want to make that it is important for us to campaign and debate the issues.

If I look at it from the most charitable perspective, the effects on women and girls are not intended, maybe they're just not cared about enough, but either way I feel like I have to do something about it.

I do know trans people in real life, I wish them well, and I think they have the right to live their lives the way they want or need to - but not with unlimited rights to try to change language, remove sex segregation and so on without considering other people.

5’ 8” is still considerably taller than the average woman.

And 98% of all stats are made up.

upstart

5'8" is awfully specific. Is that a cut off point?

Did you just make an amazing pun?

Fun facts: Unless height is a factor for transitioning, the average male transperson will be 5 foot 9, like the average male man. Of course some will be taller and some shorter. Only around 2% of males will be the average height or under for women at 5 foot 4.

I have collected any stats for people of either sex who are 5 foot 8. Sorry.

I don't think 98% of the above is made up, but who knows?

I notice nobody is answering my question though. Will you be giving up your rights to single sex spaces or are you seeking privilege for yourself which you intend to deny trans women?

The question makes no sense.

Single sex spaces and services are based on biological sex. Those needs still exist, women have not changed. Stop acting like they are a huge privilege. They are needed.

I’m seeking to deny them to transwomen, on account of how they’re not of the same sex as me, and would this render single sex spaces not single sex.

That's because it's a silly, illogical question, Snappity. Now, please expand on your theory of transwomen and height. Also, are transmen a. over (insert height here) in disproportionate numbers because that would make sense within your theory or b. irrelevant because you don't care about them anyway?

I'm 5'10", learnt something today. I'm a man.

Right ladies, man here.
Actually the precise cut off for lady height is 170cm.

I learned that I have several male relatives who ought to have transitioned. Can't wait to tell them!

No Snappity love. We're not going to give up our rights. Bless your heart, how long have you been gadflying round these parts and you havent heard that word enough?

Have it again.

No.