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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Lesbians react to London Pride

999 replies

garam · 08/07/2018 19:28

Some very passionate responses from the lesbian community, since the anti-trans protests.

When Jennifer James pushed to sue the labour party, the result was the labour party clarified it's position as self-id for AWS

This has a similar ring to it, as the anti-trans protesters tried to co-opt the lesbian community, there has been a vocal backlash and clarification of support for trans people.

There's a hashtag to check out... twitter.com/hashtag/LWithTheT?src=hash

OP posts:
Thread gallery
36
LGBTQIA · 09/07/2018 19:53

This has probably already been picked up by now but just in case, here you are are, about halfway down page 28.

Crucially you missed out the second, qualifying part of my sentence. Why is that?

Datun · 09/07/2018 19:54

daim

Your post was deleted. Your continuing determination to reiterate the sentiment is extremely unpleasant.

Pratchet · 09/07/2018 19:57

I'm so disgusted by this person. I'm so sorry Cath Flowers

vermillionR · 09/07/2018 19:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LGBTQIA · 09/07/2018 19:58

Nearly half of the transwomen in prison on there for sex offences.

I don't really see the need to reply to your post in detail as this statement is so glaring in its bias. By the way, it's also incorrect, as this article adequately points out - www.independent.co.uk/voices/41-per-cent-trans-transgender-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders-false-study-statistic-this-is-why-a8072431.html

Mogleflop · 09/07/2018 20:01

@vermillionR but what's wrong with saying that lesbians are female homosexuals, and that men can't become one?

It's a fact. A boring, uncruel fact.

Saying it isn't doesn't change it, anymore than saying the earth is flat makes it so.

Pratchet · 09/07/2018 20:02

Vermillion, what a lot of rubbish. This is terrible PR and has started so many conversations.

53rdWay · 09/07/2018 20:03

an attack on the LGBTQIA and feminist movement by a right-wing fringe, who are backed by evangelicals and pro-lifers, and the Murdoch gutter press.

yeah, also they’re secretly lizard people who work for the Illuminati?

They’re lesbians who disagree with you. Don’t slander them with this shit, and don’t drag a US culture war interpretation in to circumstances where it very clearly doesn’t apply.

Ereshkigal · 09/07/2018 20:04

That independent article is bullshit and has been debunked, not least by Andrew Gilligan on Twitter. The figures have since been confirmed and they were pretty much correct. Do better research.

Ucantarguewistupid · 09/07/2018 20:05

"Only one of these communities has been subject to unspeakable hatred and violence through the course of history."

This is meant to imply that only trans people have endured unspeakable hatred and violence? Not only will homosexuals, lesbians and bi sexuals disagree with this statement as they have endured such things but also women born as females. In fact no trans person who identifies as female but was born male (don't know exactly what terminology is allowed....) has ever or will ever have the history of hate and oppression as women. No trans women will ever in their history be treated as property and given labotomies. Thay did not have to wait until very recent history for the law to be changed that forcing your wife to have sex with you is indeed rape and for it to be declared ileagal.They do not and will not ever be able to share the history of females born. Perhaps this is why they do not get our discomfort and determination that a line must be drawn and our sex protected.

If you have man bits you do not have a right to be in female bits owning safe spaces. Regardless of which stereotype about sex you believe you belong to. And you certainly have no right to terrorise, bully and scorn those who do not wish a sexual relationship with someone who has the same bits as you.

What very firmly heterosexual famous male is currently single? Find one and start hassling him to have sex with a penis owning person who identifies as women. I really want to see how that plays out.

LGBTQIA · 09/07/2018 20:06

Assuming they are all the same race isn't very intersectional of you.

At no point did I mention race. The straight male community has never been discriminated against for being straight. Obviously men of colour have been discriminated against for other reasons.

53rdWay · 09/07/2018 20:06

God, it’s like the Julian Assamge thing all over again. “No I absolutely listen to women, I am super feminist myself, it’s just that these particular women are CIA plants using the rape card to ruin an innocent man’s life!”

53rdWay · 09/07/2018 20:07

Really, there is not a ‘straight male community’. There is patriarchy; is that what you’re thinking of?

Ereshkigal · 09/07/2018 20:07

Bluster bluster Vermilion

LGBTQIA · 09/07/2018 20:10

That independent article is bullshit and has been debunked, not least by Andrew Gilligan on Twitter. The figures have since been confirmed and they were pretty much correct. Do better research.

A journalist for a right wing publication has debunked it on Twitter? Well. I stand corrected. Can you direct me to some confirmed facts, please?

LangCleg · 09/07/2018 20:10

That independent article is bullshit and has been debunked, not least by Andrew Gilligan on Twitter. The figures have since been confirmed and they were pretty much correct. Do better research.

Fair Play for Women have instructed lawyers over that Owl Fisher piece.

fairplayforwomen.com/prison-data-confirmed/

HQ have sent some really green recruits over, haven't they? We've been through this one umpteen times already.

Floisme · 09/07/2018 20:12

Crucially you missed out the second, qualifying part of my sentence. Why is that?

Oh sorry, I left it out because I have to admit that when women keep on pretending they don't know what rape culture means, I'm slightly embarrassed for them. But if you're not embarrassed about it then fine - here's the whole sentence:
I'd like to see evidence that lesbians are being coerced into having sex with people they don't wish to have sex with, and that the transgender community has a lot of people within it that are responsible for this, as the leaflet claimed.

LangCleg · 09/07/2018 20:12

an attack on the LGBTQIA and feminist movement by a right-wing fringe, who are backed by evangelicals and pro-lifers, and the Murdoch gutter press

Cool way to describe 82% of the population (Pink News told me it was 82%).

LGBTQIA · 09/07/2018 20:13

This is meant to imply that only trans people have endured unspeakable hatred and violence? Not only will homosexuals, lesbians and bi sexuals disagree with this statement as they have endured such things but also women born as females.

Question, as I'm new here: is it common practice to take people's quotes out of context in order to attribute a belief to them that they never expressed?

My original post quite clearly pointed out the danger of comparing people in the transgender community to straight men. At no point did I say that the transgender community was the only one subject to victimization.

In fact no trans person who identifies as female but was born male (don't know exactly what terminology is allowed....) has ever or will ever have the history of hate and oppression as women.

They do not have the same history as biological women, that is true. They certainly do have an undeniable history of receiving hate and oppression, however.

LangCleg · 09/07/2018 20:14

The MOJ are a bunch of transphobes, apparently. Today is going well!

UglyCathKidstonBag · 09/07/2018 20:16

They certainly do have an undeniable history of receiving hate and oppression, however.

So you’d think they’d be angry about the people supposedly misrepresenting them and speak out in anger at their fellow LGBT siblings facing homophobia and corrective rape?

littlbrowndog · 09/07/2018 20:18

Vermillion u such a frother
Total frother

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 09/07/2018 20:18

Right so -

Lots of posts here showing trans people shaming/vilifying/bemoaning lesbians not wanting to sleep with them and saying this is transphobic.

Lots of posts pointing out that this leads to women sleeping with people they really don't want to because they have been told they are bigots if they don't. Possibly particularly young women. Recently out young women still learning about their sexuality.

Lots of posts pointing out that acceptance of that leads to a 'rape culture' where coercing a group of women into unwanted sex is permissible.

And now you're saying we're saying that all trans people are rapists and asking that we don't draw attention to this because of the vulnerability of trans people?

And that's NOT rape culture?

You are not feminists. You are throwing vulnerable women to the wolves to look woke. It's pathetic. And disgusting.

53rdWay · 09/07/2018 20:25

Question, as I'm new here: is it common practice to take people's quotes out of context in order to attribute a belief to them that they never expressed?

Yes - how did you find us, by the way? Was it perchance some link on social media with a rallying cry for ‘cis allies’ to go and correct the awful hateful pseudo-feminists on MN? Or did you end up following a link for teething toys or something?

Anyway - yeah, there is sometimes an issue with highly emotive debates where both sides are so convinced they know what the other’s view is that they go in swinging. (Not sure if yours was an example of that, I didn’t catch which post you replied to.)

You have done the same thing yourself a tad, though. When you were talking about biological definitions of ‘woman’, you were arguing against a straw man idea of what gender critical feminists believe. It’s clear you have been told somewhere that we think all women should be somehow reduced to our reproductive systems as they’re the most important things about us (more so than, say, our characters). That’s really not what radical feminists believe. Which does make me wonder who pointed you here, and what they told you about what views we bad women are advocating?

LGBTQIA · 09/07/2018 20:26

So you’d think they’d be angry about the people supposedly misrepresenting them and speak out in anger at their fellow LGBT siblings facing homophobia and corrective rape?

In an ideal world, every marginalized group would look out for every other marginalized group, yes.