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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Lesbians react to London Pride

999 replies

garam · 08/07/2018 19:28

Some very passionate responses from the lesbian community, since the anti-trans protests.

When Jennifer James pushed to sue the labour party, the result was the labour party clarified it's position as self-id for AWS

This has a similar ring to it, as the anti-trans protesters tried to co-opt the lesbian community, there has been a vocal backlash and clarification of support for trans people.

There's a hashtag to check out... twitter.com/hashtag/LWithTheT?src=hash

OP posts:
Thread gallery
36
Melanippe · 09/07/2018 16:53

Oh oh, I can feel a are-you-calling-women-who-have-had-a-hysterectomy-not-women-? post being built up to.

LGBTQIA · 09/07/2018 16:53

How very egalitarian of you. Did you think that up by yourself?

Was this directed at me?

Moonkissedlegs · 09/07/2018 16:54

The Pool have written a terrible article on this on FB, haven't even bothered trying to understand the issues.

Datun · 09/07/2018 16:54

Hopefully you can understand why some women may wish to prefer to identify as such based on societal reasons rather than biological.

I know they wish to, I don't know how they do.

Someone born with XX chromosomes, who identifies as a woman, due to a societal reason?

Perhaps you could just give me a hypothetical example?

Because deciding that society can dictate one's sex, based on societal norms at any given time, is incredibly difficult to imagine, without resorting to damaging stereotypes.

And what happens to women who don't have that society approved/recognised behaviour?

We can talk about it as a concept, if you prefer.

Ereshkigal · 09/07/2018 16:55

I'd prefer if humans were referred to by the content of their character rather than their biological abilities or lack thereof.

I'd prefer words meant things and the issues women face as an oppressed sex class could be discussed without pandering to woke pomo nonsense which erases us.

BabyItsAWildWorld · 09/07/2018 16:56

Daim your experience seems to run to the contrary to some other lesbians on here.

I accept your experience, and can believe that different people have had different experiences, I'm not sure why you dismiss the experiences of other women so easily?

Ereshkigal · 09/07/2018 16:56

Oh oh, I can feel a are-you-calling-women-who-have-had-a-hysterectomy-not-women-? post being built up to.

They only have one gotcha.

Pratchet · 09/07/2018 16:56

Maybe this government collapse means the GRA goes on the back burner

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 09/07/2018 16:57

See i see the word 'woman' and then i have to double check whose post im reading Grin

As with some posters ive no fucking idea what they mean by woman Grin

I know what i think of those posters 'damn you guidelines'

53rdWay · 09/07/2018 17:00

I'd prefer if humans were referred to by the content of their character rather than their biological abilities or lack thereof.

Which is great, if we’re talking about evaluating each other’s worth as individuals. It is not useful when we are describing each other’s physical characteristics to look at dynamics of class.

So, what makes me disabled is not the ‘content of my character’ It says nothing about the content of my character at all. Yet I still find disability to be a useful term, and not one which says I have no personality other than my body. Why is it different for ‘woman’?

daimbars · 09/07/2018 17:00

I'm not dismissing them Baby - if lesbians feel they need to set up a dating website only for biological females then they should set this up. Not sure why it's anything to do with me?

Pratchet · 09/07/2018 17:01

They do, they're invaded always

BabyItsAWildWorld · 09/07/2018 17:05

Not at all. Not ever biologically born female grows up able to gestate. I'd prefer if humans were referred to by the content of their character rather than their biological abilities or lack thereof.

That's why you'd have to call us 'born with then potential to gestate' as it would include all people in the reporoductive sex class, regardless of whether the bits were working, or old, or removed.

It sounds very noble, for about 3 seconds, until you realise what you are suggesting is that women/biological females never need to be spoken about as a group, which is denying all the particular issues that group has a class due to reproductive function and biology, and societal disadvantage associated with that.

Then it looks like a massive great big fucking problem, because we exist, we are distinct from males, and we need to be able to talk about that, and not being able to do so would be dangerous for women.

Either you really haven't thought this through, or you're so woke it's impaired your ability to reason temporarily, or you don't give a shit about women.
There is no other reason to not be able to see that saying 'some females have a penis', and not being able to name the group with the potential to gestate, causes massive problems for women.

YourMajestyJ · 09/07/2018 17:07

A transwoman who has followed the necessary process to legally be recognised as a woman, and has legally been recognised as such, however, is perfectly entitled to call themselves a lesbian.

They aren't legally recognised as women though, and as another poster just said, sex is a protected characteristic as is sexual orientation which is defined under the Equality Act as being based on sex.

You are being homophobic.

Ucantarguewistupid · 09/07/2018 17:08

Are gay men who refuse to have sex with people who identify as gay but don't have a penis getting the same treatment as lesbians who refuse sex with a person who identifies as female but has a penis? Will you also be hounding straight men who refuse to have sex with a person who identifies as female but has a penis?

Surely it is gender stereotypes that need smashing to bits not the long accepted definitions of male and female, heterosexual or homosexual or bi sexual? Are not those who feel comfortable entering a relationship with a person of the same sex - sex defined as chromosomes and bodies, really either no sexual or latent homosexuals?

Gender is an identity construct. I do not conform to the construct, the stereotype of how a person with xy chromosomes, boobs, uterus, vagina clit etc.... should be but I am very much a woman and happy to be so. I have what has long been accepted to be a female body (as described above) been brought up as female, treated female etc and am happy with my biology. I just don't conform. This does not mean I am male. Or as my only preference is to have sex with males gay. I am a heterosexual female.

Seriously - are men being hit with this rhetoric and hate? Would you offer them the same violence and disrupt their meetings should they have them.

Men are beginning to realise.

My dad was appalled at hearing 13 year old boys could be allowed into girls toilets. That was a man being appalled. Go find a man's group and hate on them.

BabyItsAWildWorld · 09/07/2018 17:08

What it's got to do with you Daim is I asked you the question hours ago repeatedly and only now get an answer.

I'm glad the answer is you think it's OK if they want to.

It's not a need you had, which is great, but hopefully you will accept the testimony of other women when they say their spaces have been taken over by males.

YourMajestyJ · 09/07/2018 17:09

I'm sure the organisers of 'Get the L out' managed to round up a few penis excluding lesbians without much trouble.

Every lesbian then.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 09/07/2018 17:14

I'd prefer if humans were referred to by the content of their character rather than their biological abilities or lack thereof.

I'd prefer it if fuckwits didn't appropriate MLK but you get what you're given.

daimbars · 09/07/2018 17:15

It's not true Baby

There are dating sites specifically set up for Christians. Are they 'invaded' by atheists? No.

You are suggesting that trans women are forcing themselves into spaces where they are not wanted. It's not only untrue, it's insulting.

I haven't been on a lesbian dating site in years but I haven't heard anything from my single lesbian friends about 'invasions' by a trans women. Even if there was a trans woman on a lesbian dating site, so what? Not everyone is going to float your boat. If you don't like it scroll past or swipe left. There's no need to get in a big transphobic flap about it.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 09/07/2018 17:20

You are suggesting that trans women are forcing themselves into spaces where they are not wanted

Well someone's been paying attention Hmm

TerfsUp · 09/07/2018 17:31

is perfectly entitled to call themselves a lesbian.

It is their sense of entitlement that is causing so many problems. They are not "entitled" to call themselves anything.

They are not female and so cannot, by definition, be lesbians.

TerfsUp · 09/07/2018 17:32

You are suggesting that trans women are forcing themselves into spaces where they are not wanted

I don't know who said this but - ye gods. The penny has finally dropped.

TerfsUp · 09/07/2018 17:32

Oops. It was daim. Should have known.

And, yes, it is true.

TerfsUp · 09/07/2018 17:33

I'm not dismissing them Baby - if lesbians feel they need to set up a dating website only for biological females then they should set this up. Not sure why it's anything to do with me?

I thought you were a lesbian.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 09/07/2018 17:34

Unbelievably it was daimbars. Just a moment ago. 13 pages into the 4th thread on this issue Shock