Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Unwitting trans agenda allies

128 replies

Macareaux · 06/07/2018 13:39

From some of the other threads I got to thinking about who supports the trans agenda.

I think that the vast majority of men do not but equally they are not impacted by it so, with rare and welcome exceptions, they completely ignore it and get on with their life.

However women, due largely to socialisation I suspect, want to be kind and supportive to people who they believe (due to uncritical media portrayals, Channel 4 I'm looking at you) were born in the wrong body. They also support LGB so how can you not support T?

So I think part of the ongoing task is to inform other women of the reality of the issue. Our friends and family and when they get it they will discuss it with the men in their lives. Foucusing on sports and changing rooms and refuges rather than bathrooms.

The GRA consultation could be just what is needed to bring this whole thing out into the open and is a good hook to hang a conversation on, especially with so much in the media about it right now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
AngryAttackKittens · 07/07/2018 11:25

Daim's flailing so desperately I'm almost tempted to throw them one of those floaty rings they keep on boats.

LangCleg · 07/07/2018 11:30

My house is full of young people shouting IT'S COMING HOME at the top of their voices, there is no food left in my fridge, the sun is shining and Daim has declared an aversion to harmless blue fictional creatures because of confusion over response order, or somesuch. What a day!

Now, if only I could work out how to ethically address the Marmite conundrum...

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 07/07/2018 11:32

Your Smurf comment was in reply to the question in your screenshot?????

That makes absolutely no sense.

That's because it wasn't.

It was in response to someone asking what the name was for a lesbian who doesn't want penis.

The response was my screenshot; thus slurring all lesbians who don't want penis.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/07/2018 11:32

I still want to know if Daim identifies as Gargamel's cat...

daimbars · 07/07/2018 11:34

Apart from I clearly stated I don't want a penis as my screen shot shows so the only person I was slurring was myself. But hey ho.

LangCleg · 07/07/2018 11:35

I just shouted LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE, which seemed apropros to the thread and all the young people looked at me as though I had gone mad.

LangCleg · 07/07/2018 11:36

Anyway.

Rumbled.

That's what I meant.

I'll see myself out.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/07/2018 11:39

Your young people must have wondered when their football match turned into an ice hockey game...

LangCleg · 07/07/2018 11:40

They're drunk on excitement and I fear I am drunk on multitasking.

No idea what I'm doing at all. I probably need wine.

daimbars · 07/07/2018 11:41

The conversation went like this

Me: some idiots try and tell me I should have cock

GC: is there a special term for lesbians who don't like cock

Me: if you are alluding to TRAs calling GC lesbians terfs then yes there is

(People wondered what the word is)

Me: it rhymes with smurf and people who want the Ts excluded from LGBT

The thread is still up, it's all there to see in context. Screen shot it all you like.

You can see how it was hijacked and bombarded with the following questions

Can some lesbians have a penis?

So as a lesbian, would you have sex with a penis?

Is there a special word or term for lesbians who don't like cock?

What is your definition of lesbian?

I worry that there are no lesbian spaces, they are run by males and focus on male lesbians. Does this worry you daimbars?

Daimbars, am I right to say that in your opinion biological males can be lesbians?

If you can't define woman and you're unwilling to define lesbian, your claim to even be a lesbian is moot, Daimbars.

Hence my response to the OP that the bullying and harassment of lesbians is concerning.

bananistheanswer · 07/07/2018 12:06

Jimmy Hill. Remember him? He was big in football wasn't he?

Stilettosandan0venglove · 07/07/2018 12:07

Nearly works daim ... But later in the same thread you said this:

Apparently a lesbian saying she doesn't like cock is transphobic (although I haven't heard this stated anywhere in RL only on Mumsnet)

LangCleg · 07/07/2018 12:13

Jimmy Hill. Remember him? He was big in football wasn't he?

Chinny reckon!

(This thread is now officially funny.)

daimbars · 07/07/2018 12:19

Apparently a lesbian saying she doesn't like cock is transphobic (although I haven't heard this stated anywhere in RL only on Mumsnet)

Yep TRAs say this all the time according to Mumsnet! I haven't heard it anywhere in real life though.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 07/07/2018 12:19

daim

I am more than happy to agree that your thread was derailed by comments regarding peni

Absolutely happy as that's exactly what happened....i didnt like it, wouldn't join it with it

When i looked at the thread you very easily deflected the first lesbian/penis comment

Then you very obviously got pissed of with the whole thing and made the smurf comment

Even happy to say you were provoked if you like

But you said it

bananistheanswer · 07/07/2018 12:22

Not on twitter either then Daim? Interesting...

IamtheOrpheliac · 07/07/2018 12:25

In my (admittedly limited and university based) experiences of LGBT groups, there definitely was an element of 'if a lesbian says she doesn't like cock even if said cock is attacked to a trans woman, that's transphobic'. Maybe it's more of an issue for the younger generation? I feel like in the time I spent going along to uni LGBT events, I watched the group turn form an open, friendly space (with the odd argument/disagreement obviously) where everything could be discussed and the general atmosphere was to support each other to something completely unrecognisable. If you weren't bi or trans then unless you could prove your liberal ally-ness you were probably an evil bigot. It turned into a game of who is the most oppressed.

On the topic of the thread, I think especially for those of us who know trans people, there is a lot of cognitive dissonance. Because on the one hand, I know and love these people and want them to be able to live and be respected for who they are. Therefore I automatically supported TRAs without questioning it. But then on the other hand suddenly I started seeing these ever more entitled views being put forwards and women's sex based trauma and feelings and needs being completely ignored because trans women are 'more oppressed'. Then of course there is #nodebate, so it's nearly impossible to have a rational discussion with people to reach some kind of understanding. It's almost funny that it wasn't reading GC material that changed my mind, it was getting more involved with trans activism and being blown away by the entitlement and denial of the oppression that comes with a female body.

daimbars · 07/07/2018 12:25

Rufus

Thank you. I hold up my hands and admit the whole thing pissed me off.

I did not slur anyone though, people were asking what the 'word' was and I wrote it as succinctly as I could. People that want the Ts excluded from LGBT.

It's true - these people do want the Ts excluded from LGBT. The OP states it in the OP of this thread. It's hardly a secret!

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 07/07/2018 12:26

I did not slur anyone though, people were asking what the 'word' was and I wrote it as succinctly as I could. People that want the Ts excluded from LGBT.

Thing is - the word for people who don't want penis IS lesbian. That is the point. That is the whole point of being a lesbian.

daimbars · 07/07/2018 12:32

In your opinion Tells.

As we well know there are two camps - trans inclusive and trans exclusive. Diva magazine is explicitly trans inclusive and this is the more mainstream camp. FWR is trans exclusive.

A lesbian should be free to form her own opinion on which camp she is in rather than getting abuse from both sides if she doesn't conform.

The OP is saying feminist that are trans allies are showing solidarity 'unwittingly' and I am disagreeing.

Bowlofbabelfish · 07/07/2018 12:41

What is worrying is that GC feminists are attacking lesbians for not being gender critical.

So the men attacking lesbians for not wanting to have sex with them and demanding they accept people with penises as partners are just fine?

How about the men demanding lesbians be hung by the neck at that march the other day - are they fine?

Or just the nasty feminists talking about being gender critical? They’re the baddies here?

So words - nasty and an attack and awful and must shut up.
Calls for lynching and denial of sexuality - totally OK

Right. Yeah makes total sense.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 07/07/2018 12:42

A lesbian should be free to form her own opinion on which camp she is in rather than getting abuse from both sides if she doesn't conform

Aye - so you saying that lesbians that don't accept penis are the word that shall not be named, is slurring them. Which is why you were picked up on that point.

You cannot say 'they are free to do whatever' and at the same time say 'they are [word removed by MNHQ] if they do so'. Because by saying the second half of that sentence is a slur.

daimbars · 07/07/2018 12:42

No Bowl absolutely not fine at all. Hence my earlier post saying it would be great if us lesbians could just be left alone.

Stopthisnow · 07/07/2018 12:47

Thing is - the word for people who don't want penis IS lesbian. That is the point. That is the whole point of being a lesbian.

Exactly.

It is just another case of entitled pervy men thinking they can redefine the words woman and lesbian to benefit themselves, sickening lesbophobic behaviour.

Newsofas · 07/07/2018 12:52

I’ve spoken to my boyfriend and his friends about it. They think I am mad. They just don’t get the issues. They don’t understand why women are frightened of men as a group. I’ve given up because I end up arguing as they end up appearing to be so sexist when they are not (on the surface they are not but I’m starting to think deep down they are).