Penny Mordaunt MP: Trans women are women, that is the starting point for this consultation.

[Macareaux]

This is even worse coming from a woman.

Trans men are transgender males - who think they're women. Trans women are transgender women - that is transgender females who think they are men. Hope that clears things up.

dinosaurs

Can you explain to me how humans change sex? Because in my decades long career as a scientist I have been led to believe this is a scientific impossibility.

Pulls up chair, settles down with popcorn.....

The Irish are ahead of the British on this and the photo is of the Irish 2015 GRA which has been recently consulted on for an update imminently.

What amazes me is the conflation of sex and gender. How can a LAW be so shoddily written?

Has the consultation doc been published yet, or are they still in the warm-up phase?

I keep googling, anxiously! Nothing yet x

If transmen are men, then they should be allowed to inherit titles and estates over their younger natal brothers.

That is the only logical conclusion.

This is what convinces me of the nature of this legislation. It is duplicitous.

I started a thread mela- you make a terrific point.

That Pink News article seems to be the only source of Penny Mourdant's comment so far....seems a little odd that the rest of the media haven't picked up on it yet. (I'm discounting MN threads and Twitter)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5913841/amp/Equalities-minister-vows-press-ahead-plans-make-changing-gender-easier.html?__twitter_impression=true

Their interview - did they make it up?

It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Maybe they said she said it, because they knew she'd be unable to deny it. You are Sherlock!

Or maybe Mordaunt is tailoring her responses based on who she's talking to (and hoping inconsistencies won't be pointed out).

The starting point for the consultation surely is that Penny Mourdant is a proven liar.

If she said that, then I guess. But I don't know that she did.

twitter.com/ObjectUK/status/1014057434594398208

Oh wow. I wonder if there could be a legal challenge.

I saw that, and tweeted about it. Tweet is being retweeted as well.

This is not good for the government. If the outcome is to push through self id, there can be challenges as this show bias towards a specific group instead of being independant. could mean political death for certain people if they now screw this up. And I do have to say, their own fault for not thinking before starting to just repeat what others say. And bad preparation as well.

I think primogeniture is a key angle because it already means exceptions will be accepted (whether you think primogeniture is acceptable or not!).

Great news! Because trans women ARE women.

No. Never can be and never will be. Don't you get bored posting the same trite inane sentence on every thread?

With never any actual argument. TWAW is not an argument, it is a statement of faith. Like a belief in God.

I admit I'm a bit curious as to what the goal of the culty statements is, given how unsuccessful they've been in winning converts so far.

Brilliant post Materialreality

That's exactly nailed it.

I think primogeniture is bullshit but I'm quite pleased they are trying to uphold it on the basis of sex. This gives us an advantage in exposing that the people responsible for this legislation do not believe their own falsehoods.

It would be good if Penny could clarify the following, which I don't understand:

If there is no meaningful difference between a 'cis'-woman and a trans woman, but there is a meaningful difference between a trans woman and a 'cis'-man, could you please explain when exactly this change takes place. Do you deem it to be from birth (i.e. that they were 'assigned the wrong gender') and have always been female? Or is it when they acquire a GRC? Or is it when they form an intention in their mind that they are a woman? Or is it when they communicate that to others? Which is it? You must surely be able to distinguish.

Let's say you have a man called Daniel. It is obvious to everyone that Daniel should not be in intimate spaces with females- he's a man fgs. It would not be appropriate at all- not necessarily because he would attack them (he's a really nice guy), but because it would make everyone uncomfortable. Daniel then realises that he identifies as trans, tells his friends about this, and starts using the name Danielle. At what precise point does it become blindingly obvious that Danielle should of course be using the female spaces? And that the women who were understood and supported for not wanting to share spaces with Daniel must now be labelled as hateful bigots for not wanting to share with Danielle? Because unless Penny can explain the exact moment when this happens and explain why it is that Daniel=hell no and Danielle=yes of course, this is illogical.