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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Penny Mordaunt MP: Trans women are women, that is the starting point for this consultation.

134 replies

Macareaux · 03/07/2018 07:20

This is even worse coming from a woman.

OP posts:
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BiologyIsReal · 03/07/2018 11:11

I would ask Penny Mordaunt what sex she believes a person with a penis is.

The other thing I would ask is that considering around 85 per cent of trans women still have a penis, does she consider them to be women?

I would also ask if she knows the difference between sex and gender.

Truly, a lie can be half-way round the world before truth gets its boots on.

AccioWine · 03/07/2018 11:11

Ok, my mp has been emailed (again). This is a concerning start to the consultation - it sounds like minds are made up. Ug.

QuizteamBleakley · 03/07/2018 11:18

I've emailed my local MP. He's as much use as a fart in a storm but we'll see...

AngryAttackKittens · 03/07/2018 11:23

"The starting point of the consultation is that women who're concerned about how this impacts them can fuck off", is how I interpreted it.

busyboysmum · 03/07/2018 11:24

[email protected]

This is the correct email address BTW

OvaHere · 03/07/2018 11:25

Definitely write to your own MP about this issue but Penny's email is [email protected] if you want to write to her too

Without wanting to cause offence here the address linked earlier in this thread has a typo and should say parliament.

Please watch for this if you copy paste or your emails won't get through.

LangCleg · 03/07/2018 11:26

Penny Mordaunt needs to be careful not to bias her consultation before it even begins. Legal challenges ahoy if she does.

Popchyk · 03/07/2018 11:27

NEWS *

Right. That was quick.

Got an email from my MP's Senior Parliamentary Assistant, saying that the MP had listened to Penny Mordaunt's interview on the Today programme today. And after listening to the interview they had already started a draft a letter to Mordaunt personally before he got my email. Asked if they could include my email in the letter to Mordaunt.

I said yes of course.

I may now be slightly regretting the robust words I had chosen to refer to Penny Mordaunt's insistence that transwomen are women before the consultation even starts.

Still. Needs must. Grin

LangCleg · 03/07/2018 11:29

Got an email from my MP's Senior Parliamentary Assistant, saying that the MP had listened to Penny Mordaunt's interview on the Today programme today. And after listening to the interview they had already started a draft a letter to Mordaunt personally before he got my email. Asked if they could include my email in the letter to Mordaunt.

Yay!

See? It works! Keep going, wims.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/07/2018 11:34

Keep it up! Also well done your MP for already having a response in motion.

Elletorro · 03/07/2018 11:35

Section 19 of the GRA allows for restrictions in sport of competitors of the “acquired gender” if necessary to secure “fair competition” and “safety of competitors.”

The GRA currently acknowledges that TWANW for the purposes of sport.

We need similar additional sections added to the GRA addressing:

Communal accommodation (particularly prisons), Occupational requirements (rape counsellor) Single sex services (including refuges), AWS

In each instance similar wording could be used to the current section 19. Safety and fairness/equality of opportunity for those who are not in the “acquired gender” group...for our purposes natal women.

Popchyk · 03/07/2018 11:37

Yep, and it gives me a good way in to contact PM herself without her fobbing me off with "write to your own MP" thing.

I will write to Penny myself saying that my MP has written to her and included my email.

And if Penny want any further clarification about the road to hell that she is on, then by all means please contact me personally for additional information.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/07/2018 11:38

Please add - the NHS specifically. Bespin claims that right now this is something that's handled by each NHS trust individually. That's not good enough. People need to be able to request a same sex HCP and actually get one, and they also need to be able to refuse treatment from someone who says they're the same "gender" but is not the same sex.

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 03/07/2018 11:39

Trans women are women, that is the starting point for this consultation.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength

Pay particular attention to that last one, it’s being enacted right now

Helmetbymidnight · 03/07/2018 11:40

Penny Mourdant was an outrageous lying fucker over Brexit - of course she's not going to deal with facts.

No one should be surprised that she's still duplicitous and self-serving.

MistressDeeCee · 03/07/2018 11:46

I'm a Trans-ally but not under any circumstances a Self-ID ally. Lines are purposely being blurred here, to serve the agenda of a few entitled, privileged people.

They scream "Trans rights" but it's Self-ID rights they want. They will use then throw transwomen under the bus to get it.

It frustrates me how easy it is to lump everything together and hide the real issues surrounding erosion of womens' rights.

& there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it right now.

Perhaps it needs to be more direct, concise, and to the point.

No long words and paragraphs, academic speak, long winded explanations and reports using terms and abbreviations many people simply won't understand.

Just images that tell stories

#winningatwomenssport

Penny Mordaunt MP: Trans women are women, that is the starting point for this consultation.
MacaroonMama · 03/07/2018 11:52

I have emailed Penny Mordaunt and am just about to email my MP (he was pretty good when I met up with him in the autumn) with a CC of it.

Here it is. It is a bit crap because I am tired and have a sleepy baby on my boob and am not v good at with typing other hand...

Dear Penny,

I note with concern your thoughts re: the upcoming GRA consultation and in particular your statement that “Transwomen are women, that is the starting point for this consultation”.

How can it be a consultation if in one sentence you have conflated sex and gender? Sex is biological and cannot be changed. Gender and gender identity is how people feel about themselves, their minds, their bodies, where they ‘fit’ on a spectrum of feminine-masculine.

Men cannot change into women. They can wear clothes/make-up/hairstyles that they feel belong to women, but they cannot change their biology.

Women as a class are more vulnerable than men - men commit approximately 98% of sexual offences, for example - and it is therefore currently considered appropriate in just a few situations that certain spaces are kept separate due to sex rather than gender.

This is to protect women and girls. It is not to hurt anyone’s feelings. Women in a shelter for domestic violence victims need to feel safe, so men are not allowed. Women getting changed for swimming need privacy and dignity, so men change in separate areas. Women’s bodies are different to men in other ways so there are separate sporting categories. It is widely accepted that the socialisation of girls puts them at a disadvantage in certain areas of life, so there are certain scholarships, recruitment programmes, award schemes etc open just for women. On hospital wards and psychiatric wards, women are already feeling vulnerable and possibly immobile due to ill health, it is therefore considered best practice to protect their physical safety by placing men in separate areas.

None of these things are disproportionate when you consider violence against women and girls. In a country where two women a week die at the hands of a partner or former partner, it is only sensible for a government which cares about this 51% of the population to acknowledge that in these few areas, women and men are kept separate. Men can still go swimming, go to hospital, play sport, enter politics etc - just alongside women, not right in the middle of the space they need.

For you to claim the transwomen are women, you seem to have already nailed your colours to the mast. Did you know that around 85-90% of transwomen keep their penises and testicles? Many women do not want to be around male bodies when in situations like the ones I have listed above. Men dressing like women or ‘feeling like women’ does not change their sex.

This consultation needs to provide a glossary to terms if you are going to alter the meaning of words. As far as I know, and for many other people I know, woman means adult human female, the same way that sow means adult female pig or mare means adult female horse.

Transwomen have many rights which need protecting. They do not need to own the word woman. If we include transwomen in the word women, we cannot properly measure the sex pay gap, we cannot look at crime statistics in a meaningful way (six ’women’ were convicted of rape last year, how is this possible?), we cannot see that a boardroom full of men in women’s clothing is not quite the equality we need, nor can we cater for those women desperately in need of shelter places who simply cannot share a room with a ‘woman with a penis’.

Please Penny, can you consider women and girls? Girls have enough to deal with, growing up in this era (I grew up in the 1990s, pre-internet, and I am so grateful), and now schools are starting to tell them that they need to share changing rooms/toilets/dorms on school trips with transgirls - ie fully intact teenage boys. This is not acceptable. But it is the trickle down effect of ‘transwomen are women’. Because then ‘transgirls are girls’. And then girls need to make room in the changing room for the students with penises.

I would really appreciate a reply to this, Penny, however brief. There has to be a way to make transfolk feel their rights, dignity and day to day life is happy and meaningful without the need to tell women and girls to move over, shut up and sit down.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,
[my real name]

(teacher, mother, concerned citizen)

Sent from my iPhone

MacaroonMama · 03/07/2018 11:53

Ha ha MistressDeeCee mine is exactly what you said not to write! Ah well...

Pratchet · 03/07/2018 11:54

Trans'women' aren't women though. They're male, that's why they are trans. Penny Mordaunt must know this.

OvaHere · 03/07/2018 12:06

My email I have sent to Penny and my local MP

Dear Ms Mordaunt,

I have been following with interest the discussions around reforming the GRA as I am strongly committed to retaining protections for women and girls.

I'm very disappointed to read you have stated that ' the starting point for the consultation is transwomen are women'.

Not only is this a very biased starting point for what was supposed to be a fair consultation including women and women's groups it is also a falsehood that is not supported by any biological or material reality.

Assuming you don't actually believe humans can change sex I believe it is imperative that you define for the purpose of this consultation a concise and clear definition of what a woman is.

Nobody I have asked has yet been able to give a definition of the word woman that would adequately cover myself, a woman ( XX female) a self identified woman (XY male) but excludes all men. A definition that doesn't resort to circular logic (transwomen are women) or isn't reliant on sexist gender stereotyping (women wear lipstick and dresses).

I am presuming as you are in charge of this consultation you will have given this definition plenty of thought and will be the person that can finally answer this question.

The dictionary definition of a woman is adult human female.

The dictionary definition of female is of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilised by male gametes.

I would like a glossary provided for all terms to be used in this consultation so there is a clear understanding of meaning and no conflation of sex and gender.

I have copied my constituency MP into this email as I would like her to read and acknowledge my concerns on this very important issue.

I look forward to your responses.

Best Regards

HobNobcentral · 03/07/2018 12:07

@Pacers, I have witnessed a doc prescribe a woman hormonal birth control despite her saying she was in along term relationship with a woman.

He said he was still going to prescribe it as ‘she might change her mind’

Insulting on so many levels, that a 40+ year old woman didn’t know her own sexuality, that she might cheat on her partner…

And I’ve heard both on here and in real life women having issues with getting prescribed the acne medication Roaccutane unless they took BC.

Back to the thread, I have emailed my MP but as he’s a self serving little git I don’t expect too much of him. He’ll vote whichever way the ‘popular’ kids tell him too.

MacaroonMama · 03/07/2018 12:08

🙌🏻 OvaHere excellent letter.

MistressDeeCee · 03/07/2018 12:08

MacaroonMama 😁

AngryAttackKittens · 03/07/2018 12:10

Well, I guess the old "what's your method of contraception?", "Homosexuality" joke doesn't really work any more if you pretend that both men and women have their genitalia assigned randomly so there's no way of knowing what kind of gametes either party might produce.

MistressDeeCee · 03/07/2018 12:10

Nice one Ova. Just clear, definite & to the point. Particularly liked this part

I would like a glossary provided for all terms to be used in this consultation so there is a clear understanding of meaning and no conflation of sex and gender

I would love to know if she replies in as clear and specific a vein as you've written..

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