Victoria Derbyshire show today - transgender children buying time by delaying puberty

[LittleLebowski]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44661079
Looks like it will be on today's show. mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23VictoriaLIVE&src=hashtag_click&f=live

Why are children being pushed down the medical route while adults are campaigning for total demedicalisation?

Keep saying this. Over and over. To anyone who will listen.

Not satisfactory bespin

Mr Justice Hayden removed the child – known only as ‘J’ – from his mother after finding she had caused him ‘significant emotional harm’ and ‘pressed [him] into a gender identification that had far more to do with his mother’s needs and little, if anything, to do with his own’. After the judgement, the Sunday Times reported, the charity Mermaids attacked the ‘horrific decision’ and insisted that J did in fact identify as a girl, and said there was ‘no evidence at all to support this judge’s views’. However, it has now been claimed that the charity has been ‘ordered to have nothing to do with this child following their removal’.... (continues with statement from Mermaids)

metro.co.uk/2017/10/08/charity-advised-mum-to-force-her-son-7-to-live-as-a-girl-6984649/

Why are adults who believe this ideology, pushing drug treatment on children whilst they go drug free?

Some from Mermaids and other prominant TRAs are pushing to allow the involvement of private provision suvh as Dr Helen Webberly's GenderGP.

It is being framed as being due to the waiting times but there has also been much open discussion about preferring Dr Webberley's approach over the Tavistock's.

The hostility towards Dr Polly Carmichael was open during her speech at the recent conference discussed below:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents

Polly Carmichael is nothing but cautious and for this they attack her at every turn.

Children can't drink, smoke, marry and yet VD pushed an ideology that allows them to make long-term decisions in childhood about sterilisation, when women with children are not trusted to make that same decision because they may change their mind?

I know you will keep asking that question as the answers you get are not what you want to hear

Bespin That is not an answer. The question was:
Why are children being pushed down the medical route while adults are campaigning for total demedicalisation?

Specifically, a consultation is about to be launched, which will be about people self-identifying their "gender" or legal sex. No medication or even a medical diagnosis will be required for people who wish to do this.

Under a self-id system, men will be able to become women in a legal sense by simply declaring themselves to be women, with all their male genitalia intact.

Children are being told that they can literally change sex, but in order to do this they must be medicalised - puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, chest binders and mastectomies etc.

So for adults - trans is not a medical condition, keep your lady penis, you're still a woman.

For children - medicate and mutilate.

Why is there one pathway for adults and another for children?

Didn't expect it too be Pratchet

But you will keep getting the same answer as that is the reality of this situation.

Now this

It is being framed as being due to the waiting times but there has also been much open discussion about preferring Dr Webberley's approach over the Tavistock's.

This I can get behind I would want to ask private providers lots of questions and for them to be very clear on there provision. I have great respect for
Dr Polly Carmichael who is. Trying to complete an impossible task with critics on both sides they are trying to produce the evidence you are so desperate for but these things take time. To follow up it's why the Australian study as just come out expect on from the UK in the future if they are allowed to do there work. The Tavistock as a thankless task as they only. Need to make one error in judgment or for something to happen that was unexpected and the media will hammer them on both sides. Though this is always the way with any child services. They expect and should expect a high standard but this is not perfect no one can predict how someone will be. Its why a case by case basis is needed with no blanket decisions as is advocated on here is needed. Trusting the young people to know. Themselves is not the same as just giving them. What they want.

Dr Webberly is regarded by some prominant voices in Australia as being ahead of the Tavistock approach... a trailblazer?

The reality of the situation is the middle aged males are pushing for total access to female spaces without medical treatment while campaigning for kids to be put on damaging drugs that will affect them for the rest of their lives. This is unjustifiable and you will not condemn it. We see you.

middle aged males are pushing for total access to female spaces without medical treatment while campaigning for kids to be put on damaging drugs that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

Why do people not see this?

There is an 11yo FtM trans child where I work. He has been living as a boy for 4 years. He is under the care of a consultant paediatric endocrinologist on the NHS who is carefully monitoring his hormone levels ready to start puberty blockers.
Last week the child was asking his teacher about how a man could have a baby because he would like one.
He is too young for all of this.
I understand that he feels he is a boy but I'm not sure that he truly understands the consequences of transitioning.

Ironically his Mum's long term partner is a fully transitioned transwomen.

middle aged males are pushing for total access to female spaces without medical treatment while campaigning for kids to be put on damaging drugs that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

Why do people not see this?

discussion:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241837-Why-has-the-trans-lobby-been-so-successful

“Everyone’s been saying for the last three years that the numbers have been increasing,” gender doctor Dr Helen Webberley told PinkNews.

“And that is a good thing, because of societal acceptance. We saw this when the gay community came out in the eighties, it went from being rare to commonplace – and that’s what will happen with transgenderism.”

inews.co.uk/news/health/worlds-leading-medical-journal-advocates-support-for-trans-people/

Why would anyone view an increase in people requiring a lifetime of medication as "a good thing"?

Today's Victoria Derbyshire show now available on iPlayer.

they are trying to produce the evidence you are so desperate for but these things take time.

That’s the POINT! You need long term longitudinal follow up on the effects of these drugs and you need to investigate it properly. Ten, twenty year follow up is needed. An average drug trial once it’s in the human phase 3 stage takes 4 years or so. And that’s AFTER it’s been through animal testing, testing on healthy volunteers etc.

The point of research is NOT to provide fodder for any one person or group’s agenda - it’s to find out the answer to a question. and until that data is in, and analysed you cannot ethically dose children with powerful, damaging drugs that will affect them for life.

I cannot believe I need to say this. Imagine if I’d whipped up some drug in the lab and told a bunch of people ‘yeah so like, I’ve not actually tested this properly but I’m telling you, it’s like literally brilliant ignore the haterz.^

drugs need testing properly. drugs should not be used off label unless there is a compelling risk/benefit balance and even then they should be monitored closely.

I cannot even express how shocking this is to me. We are going to look back on this as the medical scandal of the decade.

Surely all drugs are used ‘off label’ in children? We can’t do medical trials on young people (or can we?).

Pratchet
middle aged males are pushing for total access to female spaces without medical treatment while campaigning for kids to be put on damaging drugs that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

This ☝️

Trusting the young people to know. Themselves is not the same as just giving them. What they want.

No. That’s not how child informed consent works. Not in any situation. Adults have a duty of care. Medics doubly so.

My kid wants kinder eggs for breakfast. He doesn’t get them.

I feel like I’m being really stupid but do we test any drugs on children or just introduce them carefully once they’re tested on adults?

No. That’s not how child informed consent works. Not in any situation. Adults have a duty of care. Medics doubly so.

Yet the middle-aged males living with no drugs, insisting children are drugged are also the ones pushing into women spaces and services.

When people hear 8-10 IQ points, I don't think it registers how life altering that can be. In a study of a single trans child who took puberty blockers, the results were the same as the non trans children who took them, a 10 point IQ drop which wouldn't be that life altering if someone is of average or high intelligence but this child was taken from "low average" (80) to "borderline"(70) www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5694455/

So no they are not harmless,they do not just buy time, they are affecting these childrens brains in irreversible ways

Most of the studies done on puberty blockers are on their effects on adults but there is a good collation of all the papers on the negative side effects here in the side bar www.lupronvictimshub.com/risks.html

middle aged males are pushing for total access to female spaces without medical treatment while campaigning for kids to be put on damaging drugs that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

Recruiting children works in two ways.

1. It reinforces the line that "I've always been a laydee".
2. People feel sympathetic towards children in a way that they don't for narcissistic middle aged men.

There is evidence that social transition and puberty blockers make desistance less likely. High desistance rates would weaken the argument of the older males.

I cannot believe that a narrative of puberty being something which 'just causes beards, depening voices or boobs' goes so un-challenged.

www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/parentsandyouthinfo/parentscarers/adolescence.aspx