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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Victoria Derbyshire show today - transgender children buying time by delaying puberty

302 replies

LittleLebowski · 02/07/2018 06:30

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44661079
Looks like it will be on today's show. mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23VictoriaLIVE&src=hashtag_click&f=live

OP posts:
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18
Pratchet · 02/07/2018 11:14

www.thelancet.com/series/transgender-health

www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-06/tl-tlt061416.php

Elsevier, pharma etc

Richard Horton jumped on this bandwagon years ago. They've only done that editorial for a bit of GRA PR.

OldCrone · 02/07/2018 11:16

Why are children being pushed down the medical route while adults are campaigning for total demedicalisation?

This is the question that really needs to be answered.

FloralBunting · 02/07/2018 11:17

Damn right, it is.

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 11:18

From first segment:
VD describes puberty blockers as "delay of development of features such as facial hair or a deep voice"
VD talking to young child "[pubert blockers] pause you becoming a teenage boy, allows you to to grow up & mature and evolve and decide if you genuinely want to continue living your life as a girl"
Asks child what they will do,
child says "probably live my life as a girl... definitely... because I think that I am a girl"
VD (voice over) " 300 children a year in the UK are now prescribed puberty blocking drugs for this reason..."

FloralBunting · 02/07/2018 11:22

I am glad I watched but I wish I hadn't. I'm dealing with this first hand and when you spend late nights with a teen girl who hates her changing body so much, and keeps hearing this siren call from the pro-blockers lobby, and then you see programmes like this, presenting the trans experience as a fairy garden in the sunshine, and all the bad stuff about it as just 'haters', it is very painful.
I'm probably going to go through the rest of the day really quite angry about this open advocation of such harmful lies

OldCrone · 02/07/2018 11:23

“The guidelines stand apart from existing recommendations by suggesting that social transition—the process by which a person changes their gender expression to more closely match their gender identity, for example, by changing one’s name, hairstyle, or clothing—should be led by the child,” said The Lancet.

So clothes and hairstyles are an expression of "gender identity", not just personality. And children's bodies need to be medicated to make them match their "gender identity".

Can someone who supports this ideology explain to me why this is a good thing?

OvaHere · 02/07/2018 11:24

But it doesn't allow you to grow up, mature and evolve. That's precisely what it stops. Not to mention the concerns about how much it affects brain development and potential adult IQ.

OldCrone · 02/07/2018 11:24

child says "probably live my life as a girl... definitely... because I think that I am a girl"

Does this child believe that it is possible to change sex?

Wanderabout · 02/07/2018 11:24

Why are they sending six plus year old children at a summer camp to workshops on how to report hate crime

SisyphusWasGenderCritical · 02/07/2018 11:25

Why are children being pushed down the medical route while adults are campaigning for total demedicalisation?

THIS is the Question that needs to be answered. And we need to keep asking it.

Tomorrow there is going to be an announcement about how no medical intervention will be required to say that you are the opposite sex. Simply self declaration. So why are we shoving drugs into our children? And advocating surgery?

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 11:26

10 year old child who identifies as a girl, excited to wear skirts, going to Brownies.

Has had a poistive experience at primary school focussed 'on fitting in'. Child reports good relationships with friends who are protective.

Child did not like it when the term 'transgender' was used in school as it caused discomfort but recognises this is the truth.

Primary school boy asks questions says you won't have boobs etc. Previously described by the child as being one of the few problems.

Mum wanted this stopped, spoke to headteacher and this was dealt with.

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 11:35

"Endocrinologist schools CA Senators on "Gender Affirming Care" for children...but hardly anyone's listening. 06/26/2018"

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=0Lu1r1pyGFc

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 11:38

@bowlofbabelfish have you seen the clip above?

Bowlofbabelfish · 02/07/2018 11:47

I have. I agree with every word he says. Interesting questions he gets about suicide.

Headlong into the void...

Pratchet · 02/07/2018 11:51

Rowan - that's a brilliant link.

I think child suicide stats will be the weapons of choice for TRA during this consultation. Would it be possible for you to do a thread debunking them with all the stats?

If not, I have a day off this week and will do it then.

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 11:58

Can I leave it with you Pratchet?

I saw the link and thought it worth sharing.

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 12:00

I don't know much about the background of the endocronologist above but he tweets at twitter.com/MLaidlawMD

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 12:04

"Gender Dysphoria and Children: An Endocrinologist's Evaluation of I am Jazz"
by the speaker above, Michael K. Laidlaw
www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/04/21220/

discussed:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children/3221502-I-am-Jazz-critique-by-an-endocrinologist

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 12:12

Camille Paglia on young people, androgyny, gender non-conformity, historical perspectives and the consequences of medical intervention.

from thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3291763-Lessons-from-history-Transgender-Mania

HawkeyeInConfusion · 02/07/2018 12:19

I didn't see the show (already too grumpy with PMT). But I have complained to the BBC about the website article.

I'm expecting a response of 'la la la. We're not listening'.

The BBC has gone down massively in my estimation based on their reporting of this issue.

Mossandclover · 02/07/2018 12:20

I note in the Endocrinologist clip the witness who was trying to say transgender caused mental health issues though lack of affirmation (rather than the other way round) missed the endocrinologist’s point that suicide stays high even after affirmation.

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 12:22

Metro article from last October:

"A transgender charity has reportedly been banned from contacting a family after the mother forced her seven-year-old son to live as a girl. Mermaids UK has also been criticised for advertising ‘same day’ cross-sex hormone treatments for children – a treatment banned by the NHS, because it causes irreversible changes and can compromise fertility later in life for anyone under 16. Hospital welcomes set of quadruplets for first time in 13 years In a High Court case, reported last year, Mr Justice Hayden removed the child – known only as ‘J’ – from his mother after finding she had caused him ‘significant emotional harm’ and ‘pressed [him] into a gender identification that had far more to do with his mother’s needs and little, if anything, to do with his own’. After the judgement, the Sunday Times reported, the charity Mermaids attacked the ‘horrific decision’ and insisted that J did in fact identify as a girl, and said there was ‘no evidence at all to support this judge’s views’. However, it has now been claimed that the charity has been ‘ordered to have nothing to do with this child following their removal’.... (continues with statement from Mermaids)

metro.co.uk/2017/10/08/charity-advised-mum-to-force-her-son-7-to-live-as-a-girl-6984649/

UpstartCrow · 02/07/2018 12:24

I complained to the BBC about pushing puberty blockers on a children's page, and got an email back saying 'we'll pass your comments along to the person who wrote the piece'. And that was it.

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 12:30

Article re Lupron (February 2017):
'Drug used to halt puberty in children may cause lasting health problems'
"For years, Sharissa Derricott, 30, had no idea why her body seemed to be failing. At 21, a surgeon replaced her deteriorated jaw joint. She’s been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease and fibromyalgia, a chronic pain condition. Her teeth are shedding enamel and cracking.

None of it made sense to her until she discovered a community of women online who describe similar symptoms and have one thing in common: All had taken a drug called Lupron.

Thousands of parents chose to inject their daughters with the drug, which was approved to shut down puberty in young girls but also is commonly used off-label to help short kids grow taller.

The drug’s pediatric version comes with few warnings about long-term side effects. It is also used in adults to fight prostate cancer or relieve uterine pain and the Food and Drug Administration has warnings on the drug’s adult labels about a variety of side effects.

More than 10,000 adverse event reports filed with the FDA reflect the experiences of women who’ve taken Lupron. The reports describe everything from brittle bones to faulty joints.

In interviews and in online forums, women who took the drug as young girls or initiated a daughter’s treatment described harsh side effects that have been well-documented in adults." (continues)

www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/

Bespin · 02/07/2018 12:30

Bowl what would be an answer to

Why are children being pushed down the medical route while adults are campaigning for total demedicalisation?

That you would find satisfactory, I can tell you that this is not the case not in. The nhs at least but I can not talk about private providers who poeple pay for there help and there diagnostic treatment plans but, as is often stated by groups like. Mirmaids who feel that the nhs is too slow what answer would reassure you they are not doing this. Other than them not doing anything at all and not prescribing anything or do. You agree that there are some young people for who this is the right outcome. As I keep saying 3/4 of young people don't. Transiston and they don't have hormones or blockers and none of this happens at the age of 6 but in mid to late teens. The services are doing exactly what you are asking for they can not. Wait till the young. Person is 18 though as treatment earlier seems to show better outcomes. I know you will keep asking that question as the answers you get are not what you want to hear