Victoria Derbyshire show today - transgender children buying time by delaying puberty

[LittleLebowski]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44661079
Looks like it will be on today's show. mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23VictoriaLIVE&src=hashtag_click&f=live

I'm not talking about the article I'm. Talking about what the Tavistock report the figures are that a large proportion of young people get no physical treatment procedures or interventions. What I was pointing out is that if you want to argue that there is a rush to physical treatment the figures do not support that claim you can not. Say one thing in one thread around treatment and then use the same figures in. Another to show the opersite

James Kirkup from article linked previously:

"Dr Carmichael in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:

“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies."

Fully support Dr Polly Carmichaels position and know she is greatly concerned that families and young people seek treatment that may not be well monitored or supported. This is a concern that a lot of us have in relation to this and I hope we can agree on.

Bespin

I am not involved in a 'debate' or an 'argument'.

It is not for you to set the terms of what I or any other poster chooses to write on the FWR board of Mumsnet.

I am consistant in my beliefs and values and considered in what I write as a consequence of these.

Interesting points although I don’t see how people not having medical transitions is all that amenable to comparisons with conversion therapy?

"conversion therapy" is yet another term in this area that has no meaningful definition. "conversion therapy" is about making the ground occupied by GC practitioners turn into quicksand so that any move is fraught with danger, and to provide the gender ideologues with a weapon to denounce anything that acts as an obstacle as "conversion therapy".

Totally true rowan i am not but this is a forum and this is a discussion and there are two sides to that discussion and we are both posting on here so. People might see it as a debate.

Bespin
I find that any characterisation of a complex subject being a matter of 'two sides' makes nuanced discussion difficult.

People are able and welcome to see my posting history, just as they are yours.

I don't belong to a 'side'.

Rowantrees I can a agree with that sentiment I also don't belong to a 'side'. We are all just people with a view point at the end of the day

I don’t really have a viewpoint, I’m a confused voyeur.

WhyDidIEatThat

Many people who have recently come to the discussions here have found the thread below useful:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Thanks, I’ve been reading along for ages but haven’t seen that thread.

The Tavistick don’t use the term intervention to mean physical intervention. A well known saying used within the Tavi is ‘every conversation is an intervention’!
The Tavi also know that exploring identities is a typical developmental task undertaken by adolescents until, hopefully, a settled identity is found.
The Tavi also knows that identity isn’t fixed and changes with context.
The Tavi seeks to help people ‘reconcile’ all aspects of themselves, including their sexed bodies.

to create two classes, the doll class, the class that is there to be played with, to be manipulated, and the agency class, the class that keeps control over their own wants and desires

Uber perceptive

Thwt right MsBeaujangles they don't use intervention to mean physical intervention they use medial intervention to mean that so the aspects of physical health monitoring and treatment which can and does include a number of things

I have referenced specific quotes from GIDs and also to Dr Polly Carmichaels lecture. See also Stephanie Davies Arai's extended interview (linked previously)

When I used the phrase 'medical intervention/transition' this was my description by which I referring to 'any intervention such as surgery, pharmacological intervention'

I am very well aware of the range and scope of the term interventions in different discourse.

Great posts Rowan. The wealth of resources you bring us do do valuable. Please watch out that you don't get targeted.

the Tavistock use intervention to mean physical treatment

they don't use intervention to mean physical intervention

Ive not quoted you above mrsb but thank you for clearing that up

to create two classes, the doll class, the class that is there to be played with, to be manipulated, and the agency class, the class that keeps control over their own wants and desires

This is spot on. And also horrifying.

This is very sad

I got a response to my BBC complaint about the website article. It was predictably disappointing and missed the point.

I have just spent half an hour typing up a detailed reply, only for their page to time out when I tried to submit it. I need to step away for a bit else my second attempt will be a lot less polite.

What did they say? Don't give up. Do respond Hawkeye.

If you're doing a long response it's worth doing it in another program then copy and pasting. I say this as someone who has lost far too many posts and as a result whose swearing vocabulary is heading towards extraordinary.