Victoria Derbyshire show today - transgender children buying time by delaying puberty

[LittleLebowski]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44661079
Looks like it will be on today's show. mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23VictoriaLIVE&src=hashtag_click&f=live

I think there’s a few reasons why middle aged,and older, men are so invested in medical transition for children

It removes, or at least dilutes, the fetishistic aspect of transition. No one is going to suggest that an eight or ten year old boy is an autogynophile. I do not think it is a coincidence that as the time for consultation approaches we are seeing a lot more “trans children” and a lot less (insert name here - I actually had a name but thought better of it)

It increases the sympathy of those who have only superficial knowledge of the issues. Sympathy for children who are in pain and also sympathy for those who did not have the opportunity to transition as children.

It reinforces “ born this way” - if a person who has had a full and successful life as a man is going to claim that they have known since they were a small child that they were really women it helps to have small children who are saying that they know they are really the opposite sex.

I think the irreversible nature of medical transition- the way in which puberty blockers set children on a path they will not deviate from - is a feature rather than a problem for those who are so insistent that it is essential. “Trans kids” serve a purpose, kids who grow out of gender questions are not helpful to the cause

Some people have shown clearly that they have no problem with collateral damage.

That's why they need the narrative that blockers just give a pause, space to think etc.

Because the reality is that children who have been put on blockers nearly all go on to transition. But we don't know how many detransition because there has been no research ( and the bloke who wanted to research it had his funding withdrawn)

I think there is a huge ideological push from adults who are trying and failing to pass who are determined that the next generation will blend in seamlessly. But none of us know how those YP will grow up. Jazz Jennings certainly seems fairly damaged

FWIW, and if it restores any of your faith in science the LP is seen as utter quackery in the circles I move in

It does!! It's great to know people think that. Thank you.

And you know the interesting thing about you mentioning Andrew Wakefield? His study was published in the Lancet wasn't it? So was the PACE trial, a £5 million pound trial on M.E looking at it, again as a psychomatic condition.

It was a dreadful trial with masses of flaws. 94 scientists have signed a letter written by David Tuller asking the Lancet to have the trial independently investigated. The editor is vehemently refusing.

Science and scientists can be manipulated if there is the will. There will be people producing research on trans issues which isn't worth the paper it's written on. I note that someone upthread linked to what I'm guessing is a pro-trans piece of research in the Lancet (sorry I haven't the energy to find/read it). These days with what I know about PACE, that doesn't mean all that much to me. It's the same response as people are having to the BBC now - certain names/brands are so respected but don't necessarily still deserve their reputation in certain ways.

There seems to be a group of people who are very invested in ensuring some children a given puberty blockers.

I'm really not sure what motivates them.

It is a deliberate strategy, trans activists are using children to de sexualise the perception of 'transitioning' and transgender/transvestite/cross dresser who were (before the hard sell of the "suicidal trans kids" lie) widely viewed as men playing out sexual fetishes.

Read more about that here: mirandayardley.com/en/suffer-the-children-how-children-became-the-collateral-damage-of-transgender-ideology/

And watch a couple of trans ideology pioneers openly discussing this here:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_xQzP_jHk&t=414&feature=youtu.be

Ten years ago this was spoken about publicly and without shame across many trans blogs and message boards.

Just to repeat again because it is so disgusting and it has to be understood -
trans activists are pushing the idea of trans kids to "take the sex out" out of the public understanding of transgenderism. It is deliberate strategy and they have piled shit tons of money into 'trans youth services' and ignored everything we know about suicide contagion to sell the idea of suicidal trans kids to the media, governments, schools, etc. They do not care that this strategy is putting kids at risk.

Oh the lancet. It’s not got a very high impact factor. I know Reed Elsevier don’t actively organise arms dealing fairs any more but back when I was active in academic circles we boycotted it on principle as one of their flagship journals.

A lot of very bad science gets into journals - just because something is published it doesn’t make it gospel. It’s only when multiple groups replicate and build on a finding that you know you’re on the right track.

Here is an excellent read on why an awful lot of published research is wrong.
journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

Thanks, Joan. That was the video I was thinking of.

Thank you Bowl That's an interesting piece.

At least one poster on MN said her child was put on puberty blockers by the Tavistock and then just sent away - no counselling, psychotherapy or support for the child or the family. No buying time to make a considered opinion there.

Interesting that from the video above, the 'other group' mentioned as key are veterans and police etc.

From Victoria Derbyshire first segment,
Anna Robinson 'one of the first trans police officer in UK' in a workshop on Hate Crime for parents at Mermaids camp:

(after a show of hands of who has been or knows someone subjected to Hate Crime)
AR "So obviously Hate Crime has had an impact on the room, upon everyone here'

• VD "Is Hate Crime towards trans chldren and adults on the rise?"

AR "Absolutely we have seen like an epidemic almost of Hate Crime being reported.. more and more people reporting, more and more having the courage to report. This is their daily life and they are being targetted just for living their life"

Thank you joan - that summarises a lot of what I’ve been thinking but struggle to put into words.

Women are the main front line in child safeguarding. Who gains when our rights and boundaries are destroyed? And who loses? Who is funding measures to reduce child safeguarding and women’s rights? Why?

I was talking with a friend about the metoo movement the other day. Her opinion, which I share, is that the next big one is involving children. All the way up society, at every level.

Safeguarding and people willing to stand up and say ‘this is not OK’ are all we have. If the former is weakened and if the latter are silenced you have to ask by whom, and why.

Whenever I hear about children making these decisions I always think about a friends dd (has 2 dc) who came home from school after a sex ed lesson with a look of utter horror on her face and announced “eww, mum, it is disgusting... ...AND you did it twice!”

^^my point is children have no idea what sexual activity between consenting adults is like and the thought of babies is normally nothing more than a vague notion at that age. They don’t have the knowledge of their future selves that they need to provide informed consent.

I don't see how a prepubescent child could live as the opposite sex in any meaningful way.

I've just seen a tiny bit of the Victoria Derbyshire show, I'll try to watch it all later.

But I'm surprised at the number of parents and children who are happy to appear on TV. I know this isn't anything like 'i am jazz' level of exposure, but it does make me feel uneasy for all sorts of reasons.

And I agree with previous comments about talking about children takes the focus way from abusive men taking advantage of self id and the needs of women and girls.

I've just caught up with this now. Haven't read the rest of the thread yet, so this will probably duplicate other posts, but I'm fuming.

Was it actually made by Mermaids? There wasn't a single person there to query the view that social transitioning from a very early age is the way to deal with gender non-conforming behaviour, nobody trying to query whether gender stereotyping itself is the problem, nobody pointing out that many of these children have pre-existing difficulties, no medical perspective on the risks of taking Lupron, nobody looking critically at the suicide stats being bandied about, or anything else. I'm going to make a formal complaint about this. What happened to the BBC's requirement for balance?

To state the blindingly obvious, of course bullying behaviour is unacceptable and should be dealt with, whatever the cause. But VD was behaving as if the very recent enormous increase in children and teenagers identifying as transgender or nonbinary is unremarkable and untroubling and those of us who have concerns about it are just nasty old bigots who need to get up to speed.

Of course she couldn't question a 12yo or even a vulnerable 17yo about their beliefs, troubles and so on on national TV, other than in the most superficial, affirming way. And the end result of that is that there will be people watching who know very little about this who will now believe that this is a non-controversial area and that they must accept it without question or face shame, ridicule, abuse for being bigots. There will probably be some watching who are left with the impression that it is possible to change sex. A lot of people are very confused about this. Lily's mum appears to be one of them, judging by this quote on the article on BBC News.

She can be a woman and develop as a woman and grow up as a lady if that's what she wants to do."

No, not possible. Even with surgery and taking hormones forever more, Lily will remain a male. Changing the external appearance does not change the chromosomes.

talking about children takes the focus way from abusive men taking advantage of self id and the needs of women and girls

They've shown their hand early on. This is using children as human shields. They're fighting dirty right from the off.

I can understand how the narrative behind puberty has gained so much traction ("It just allows a bit more time to make decisions"; "It's reversible"; "It will make it easier to pass later in life", "It's jsut slowing things down")

But it's all a lie, isn't it?

It might artificially pause puberty, but the individual is not necessarily in a better position to make adult decisions, in part because - ironically - one of the things that puberty does is help the brain mature so that the individual can make better decisions.

Girls might not grow breasts in the same way, but they will still not have a "male" chest development. Boys risk ending up - again, ironically - without the necessary genital development that is needed for successful faux-vagina surgery

Was it actually made by Mermaids?

Presumably the ball that the young people had been to was organised by Mermaids.
The tweet response by Mermaids upthread suggests that they were with the teenagers after the show and were also advising them.

It makes me sick. It's toxic.

@R0wantrees, that clip is terrifying. None of the ones on the board seem like they care about the side effects, etc, of these drugs or the fact that they're NOT FDA approved for use in this way.

It's frightening what's being done to children in the name of feelings.