Victoria Derbyshire show today - transgender children buying time by delaying puberty

[LittleLebowski]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44661079
Looks like it will be on today's show. mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23VictoriaLIVE&src=hashtag_click&f=live

They decided not to ban conversion therapy (as in sexual orientation) at least for adults didn’t they?

Paris Lees in the Guardian 2015
(article linked from Mermaids resources for young people: Information About Reparative / Conversion therapy )

(extract)
"Taking advantage of vulnerable and confused adults is one thing, but matters become even more sinister when doctors offer to convert children and teenagers. This week there has been much false controversy around parents who support their children to change gender following Louis Theroux’s BBC documentary Transgender Kids. This reflects a tendency among some in the media to ignore research, medical experts and, um, actual trans people. Journalist and Guardian contributor Julie Bindel rejects the hormone-blocking treatment that supportive parents want for their trans kids. She once told me in an interview: “Preventing puberty … rather than looking at the societal pressure on children to live in very very constrained gender norms is a form of child abuse.”

In a similar vein, the Spiked editor Brendan O’Neill says that trans activists are “effectively experimenting on children,” despite the wealth of research emerging that supporting trans kids to be themselves leads to better mental health outcomes. Writing in the Mirror today, Carole “I’m no expert but” Malone asks how any four- or five-year-old could possibly know if they wanted to change gender. I’d love to know just what makes Carole think she knows better than they do.

I’m sick of hearing what people who are not trans have to say about trans people’s lives, so let me, a trans woman, tell you something I know for sure: there is only one responsible thing any loving parent can do if their child confides in them that they are gay or trans – and that is to offer unconditional support. Nothing will stop a child being trans. Nothing. I spent the first 20 years of my life battling the most intense social pressure imaginable to be someone I was not. I was told I could not be a girl. I was told it was a phase. I was told that I was too young to know what I wanted, that I would grow out of it, that it just wasn’t an option. Thankfully my parents never took me to see a conversion quack, but the idea that I might grow out of it still stopped them from getting me the proper support I needed. I had to go through years of bullying and an entirely unwanted and entirely unnecessary male puberty before I could finally take control of my own life and be who I’d known I was since the age of four. What an absolute waste of time. "

(continues with reference to the tragic suicide of Leelah Alcorna 17-year-old transgender teenager who died in 2014 in the US state of Ohio )

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/10/obama-conversion-therapy-lgbt-teens-leelah-alcorn

So it’s ‘allowed’ but everyone knows it doesn’t work.

WhyDidIEatThat

Yep so most of the reputable bodies agreed not to use it so to be part of that body which you need to be to practice then you agree not to use it also it does not work

NewStatesman & Society article:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/religion/2018/07/will-uk-ban-gay-conversion-therapy-work

I don’t think making gay conversion therapy illegal for adults is the way forward at all, but young people should be protected from it.

middle aged males are pushing for total access to female spaces without medical treatment while campaigning for kids to be put on damaging drugs that will affect them for the rest of their lives

The thing to understand is this is not about reaching the same goal, an idealised trans outcome common to both young people and middle-aged men, but to create two classes, the doll class, the class that is there to be played with, to be manipulated, and the agency class, the class that keeps control over their own wants and desires.

WhyDidIEatThat
The issues is that with regards Gender Identity, a watch and wait approach rather than exclusively affirmation has been described by some as 'conversion therapy'.
Tavistock (NHS Gender Identity Services) report that over 80% of the young people who are referred to them do not have medical interventions/ transition.

see James Kirkup article: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

"This is an issue addressed by Dr Polly Carmichael, who runs the GIDS, in a recent talk to the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health. In her thoughtful hour-long lecture, she said this:

“The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

(In other words, these are girls who do not readily identify with the predominant idea of femininity and are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians.) Dr Carmichael’s conclusion:

“The truth is we don’t know, but we need discussion in order to be thinking about what this could mean.”

Just in case that’s not clear, let me sum it up: the country’s leading centre for the care of gender-variant children says its caseload has risen more than twentyfold (35 times for girls) in less than a decade. The head of that centre doesn’t know why that’s happened and says the question needs further discussion." (continues)

embedded link from article to Polly Carmichael's lecture

Penny Mordant currently on R4 Today program discussing both the GRA and Conversion therapy.

Hold on rowantrees

You can not say Tavistock (NHS Gender Identity Services) report that over 80% of the young people who are referred to them do not have medical interventions/ transition

Then go on and on about forcing young people in to medical procedures you can not have your cake and eat it which onr do you beleive is true

The thing to understand is this is not about reaching the same goal, an idealised trans outcome common to both young people and middle-aged men, but to create two classes, the doll class, the class that is there to be played with, to be manipulated, and the agency class, the class that keeps control over their own wants and desires.

This is chillingly succinct and accurate.

This is chillingly succinct and accurate..

Yy

Isnt 'medical intervention' and 'medical procedure' two different things

In the context of this forum rufus who knows how people use them

Interesting points although I don’t see how people not having medical transitions is all that amenable to comparisons with conversion therapy?

Bespin

I have politely asked you before not to misrepresent or appropriate my opinions.

You used them

You used both those phrases

So I know how i use them....i know how the medical profession would use them

You? No idea how you use them....

And i think ive answered my own question there

They are different

So someone coukd be upset at the lack of medical intervention but perfectly happy with the lack of a medical procedure

So you beleive that 80% of young people do not receive any medical intervention by the Tavistock the uk leading centre for young people. Would that be correct?

This is a question not an appropriation of your view

I think it would suit some people in RL to pretend that someone worried about the lack of intervention is also worried about the lack of medical procedures

Which is not the case in loads and loads of non trans situations

Hi rufus the Tavistock use intervention to mean physical treatment and not talking therapies as 100% of young people who attend get some form of thst

Its early and im still tired

But even i know thats not what that article says bespin

Oh so there was no need for the snide 'who knows on this forum' as you knew the answer

So i attempt to engage in good faith and you waste my fucking time

So i attempt to engage in good faith and you waste my fucking time hmm

There's 30 seconds you'll never get back! Lesson learned though, eh?

Dr Polly Carmichael, Gender Identity Development Service Director and Consultant Clinical Psychologist, said:

“The majority of our users do not take up physical treatment through our service, and any decisions around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought. The long term health and psycho-social wellbeing of young people is always our priority. In all our work we aim to be extremely careful to properly support people and allow them to explore their full range of options.”