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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Victoria Derbyshire show today - transgender children buying time by delaying puberty

302 replies

LittleLebowski · 02/07/2018 06:30

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44661079
Looks like it will be on today's show. mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23VictoriaLIVE&src=hashtag_click&f=live

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ResistanceIsNecessary · 02/07/2018 06:46

Just seen the article on the BBC news website. Apparently the effects of puberty blockers are reversible. Unfortunately this does not suggest to me that this piece will be balanced if they can't even get basic facts right.

Pratchet · 02/07/2018 06:53

Where did you see that? I can't see it. Can you link?

Pratchet · 02/07/2018 06:59

I found it. This is shocking

The level of inaccuracy here is appalling.

These children are being given off-label prostrate cancer drugs, untrialled in children, that have serious long-term adverse effects. Nothing can undo the impact of these drugs.

LittleLebowski · 02/07/2018 07:02

Yes, I thought that was really dubious and sweeping about puberty blockers. I can't find who will be speaking on the show though. Mermaids gets mentions so maybe a well known representative from there.....

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Pratchet · 02/07/2018 07:05

I can't believe the BBC is allowing the glorification of giving these drugs to children. Do these children think they are changing sex?

Pratchet · 02/07/2018 07:06

'More than 10,000 adverse event reports filed with the FDA reflect the experiences of women who’ve taken Lupron'

womanformallyknownaswoman · 02/07/2018 07:08

Well the high trans population in bbc staff was highlighted only recently

Gentlygently · 02/07/2018 07:08

A reminder that the BBC do respond to all complaints, both about programmes or anything on the website.

Pratchet · 02/07/2018 07:09

Also there is a hashtag, sometimes they read them out

Bespin · 02/07/2018 07:20

"These children are being given off-label prostrate cancer drugs, untrialled in children"

Apart from all the times they are given to other children who are not trans for other conditions in relation to pubity then are they OK

SnuggyBuggy · 02/07/2018 07:24

I used to work in a non-medical capacity in paediatric endocrinology less than 5 years ago and puberty blockers were strictly only used for treatment of precocious puberty. We did get cases of 10 year old girls whose parents were "uncomfortable" with them growing breasts or who wanted to delay menarche for swimming lessons or kids of that age who didn't "feel ready" requesting them and they were always told no, puberty is something everyone is meant to go through.

We also had some cases of older teen boys with additional needs and absent puberty whose parents weren't keen on treatment and they were advised that puberty at the correct age range was in their best interests for the sake of their bone development.

How has effectively inducing an endocrine disorder on healthy children suddenly become ok in such a short timespan?

enoughisenough12 · 02/07/2018 07:25

It has been repeatedly pointed out that there have been NO medical trials of these drugs on children and that is unethical and unheard of in recent years. These children are being subjected to medical experimentation and people are too frightened of being called bigots to do anything about it.

Bespin · 02/07/2018 07:25

"Well the high trans population in bbc staff was highlighted only recently"

I missed this conspiracy theory have we branched out from running the Internet I am unable to keep up with the number of things we run. (this is. Very simlar to saying that other groups run the world secretly int it, I remember the so. Called infulance of gay performers in the 80s in the media)

Bespin · 02/07/2018 07:31

Yep totally untested or researched

academic.oup.com/jcem/article/98/6/2198/2536872

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 02/07/2018 07:36

Apart from all the times they are given to other children who are not trans for other conditions in relation to pubity then are they OK

No, they're not OK, the risks and benefits to the children are weighed up.

The only way these are justified as treatment for trans children is by saying that otherwise the children will suicide - they're so dangerous, that only the very most serious alternative has to be used to justify them. And yet there is no good evidence of this suicide risk, and, on other threads, I've been told (by you Bespin, I believe) that no drugs for transition would be given to children whilst they still had mental health problems like suicidal ideation.

Giving these drugs to healthy children is a scandal. If these children are suicidal, then they need to have therapy, and have that dealt with, not have their puberty delayed so they can be medical patients their entire adult life.

LizzieSiddal · 02/07/2018 07:36

They do read out a lot of viewer comments in this show.

We should all start tweeting them now, so they are aware of the facts.

Starkstaring · 02/07/2018 07:39

That article is talking about delaying precocious puberty, until the child resumes it with their peers, NOT suspending puberty beyond a normal age.
The "totally reversible" claim (another mantra) is so exasperating. What about the emotional and psychological effects? No experience is reversible.

Pratchet · 02/07/2018 07:39

Have just been reading about the use of these drugs for precocious puberty (mainly girls) and how careful doctors are about prescribing. Scandal is right, particularly since most of those who take these drugs will go on to be sterilised by cross-sex hormones.

LittleLebowski · 02/07/2018 07:40

How has effectively inducing an endocrine disorder on healthy children suddenly become ok in such a short timespan?
Couldn't agree more. The influence of the pharmaceutical companies has been pointed out in other threads, as has the potential for lawsuits from affected individuals in the future if this is to be seen as a totally acceptable way to manage issues that prepubescent kids may have.

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Pratchet · 02/07/2018 07:41

The BBC has written it although it's s devion-making time. In reality and with the experience of statistics, the decision is made. Are these children old enough to understand the meaning of lifelong sterility and loss of sexual function?

ErrolTheDragon · 02/07/2018 07:49

bespin -' I missed this conspiracy theory'

It's what the BBC says of itself. Not exactly a 'conspiracy theory'Confused.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/two-per-cent-of-bbc-staff-are-transgender-krb3bc7nd?shareToken=5f6117de0d01199d6deefe31b9bd9c3e

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 07:59

From the BBC article www.bbc.com/news/uk-44661079

"So far, her mum, Jen, says, it's been about helping her fit in and dealing with the odd nasty comment from one classmate, who said she would never be a "proper" woman.

"I have to do everything I can as a mother to protect my child - to talk to her so she knows how to deal with those comments - but also to talk to the other child's parents so they can help their child understand," she explains.

"I didn't want that child punishing, I think it's more about them being talked to and helped understand the situation because what he was saying was wrong. She can be a woman and develop as a woman and grow up as a lady if that's what she wants to do."

Lily herself said her friends stood up for her, but she feels "not good, upset," when comments like that are made.

Both girls recently spent the weekend at a camp for trans children and their families, run by the Mermaids charity.

It was attended by around 30 children between the ages of six and 19, who spend time socialising or in workshops on bullying, self-esteem or how to report hate crimes.

The charity keeps the location secret - 17 times in the past six months its founder, Suzie Green, has reported abusive online messages to the police. Eight cases in the past year have been investigated as suspected hate crimes.

"We were being called paedophiles, we were being accused of being child abusers," she says. "In fact they even did a mock-up of a van with puppies and sweets on the side saying that Mermaids are trawling infant schools trying to pick up children to make them trans. It is ridiculous."

More than half young trans people say they have been the victim of hate crime in the last year, according to research from the Stonewall charity."

Pratchet · 02/07/2018 08:05

Weren't those 'abusive tweets' factual descriptions of what Green had done to her child? There was no offence committed and no prosecution so why is the BBC mentioning them?

I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near Mermaids. Not in a bajillion years.

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 02/07/2018 08:06

"In fact they even did a mock-up of a van with puppies and sweets on the side saying that Mermaids are trawling infant schools trying to pick up children to make them trans. It is ridiculous.

twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/891405524792639493

Yes, totally ridiculous - the puppies and sweets were on their stands at various pride marches, not in vans.

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