"Cotton Ceiling" evidence thread

[Ereshkigal]

I don't want to take this over as a straight feminist woman but am troubled at the blithe denial on other threads. This is a thread to post evidence of lesbophobia from transactivists and trans allies. I will start with the fragrant Morgane Oger:

mobile.twitter.com/fedupfemme/status/1013132702147588097

How very dare women have personal boundaries, or expect to be able to decide what to do with their own time and their own bodies!

Here is a whiny thread with a link to the girlDick Fred I alluded to earlier. A quick glance at their Twitter profile is quite elluminating. Other interesting articles they’ve written include how beta men can rule the world.

mobile.twitter.com/transphilosophr/status/1013610427413094400

Also standing in solidarity with lesbians here
This is disgraceful
I tell people about it when I can in real life

Honestly it is just stupid. No different to the incels. They seem to think that women don't have the right to a sexuality. That is basically what they are saying. Their right to feeling like a woman trumps women's rights to not wanting to have sex involving a penis, have sexual preferences, have sexual desires for their own benefit at all really. How objectifying.

A cock is still a cock even if you tie a pretty pink bow round it.

Just hopping in to say that I stand with my lesbian sisters. Always.

(Sorry to be so brief about this but I have a rush job on and no time to be expansive.)

Delurking to offer support to my lesbian sisters. I am a straight old woman and have been horrified by the cotton ceiling issue since I first read about it.

Another old straight woman here standing with you.

This entire thing horrifies me.

No means no. Anyone who can’t accept that no means no is not safe to be around.

All this cotton ceiling stuff is very worrying. To me it all boils down to the very, very simple question of consent.

It is everybody’s right to say no to any kind of physical intimacy and (at least in my book) they don’t need to have ‘good reasons.’ For example, we might challenge someone who says that she does no want to medically treat someone because they are fat; I would never challenge someone who said that they just did not feel sexually attracted to fat men

Sex is not a human right and I just don’t understand how in the supposed age of ‘me too’ this kind of discourse is encouraged. It’s a complete contradiction.

We ALL discriminate by class.

I’m married. I exclude ‘all other people except DH’ in my list. No one seems to have a problem with that despite it being about as exclusionary as it gets.

If someone was expecting me to provide a reason why I wasn’t going to sleep with them or told me I was being exclusionary I’d be pretty angry. And scared.

Lesbians are entitled to say ‘only women’. That’s not the start of a negotiation to break down their boundaries. It’s a NO.

NO NO NO.

There is a significant and concerning element of control in relation to TRAs demands that humans cannot be classified by natal sex. This is most ugly and alarming when linked to sexual intimacy and intimate care.

I don’t know a single gender critical person demanding that people should not base their selection of intimate partners on gender presentation/identity. The fact that some trans advocates demand / question that people do not chose partners on the basis of natal sex is deeply unsettling!

"Trans women often face sexual exclusion from lesbian cis women who at the same time claim to take them seriously as women."

It's so blatant I don't know why every single person on the planet isn't shouting about it.

Men who are going to tremendous effort in every walk of life to force women to say men are women.

And then bloody blaming them for it because it still doesn't mean they get to re-write the laws of nature.

Indeed. Women need to be told who they are attracted to, particularly by men who think they are women.....

The last time I experienced this was when a woke bro mansplained it to me.

I'm not convinced that explaining your "lady dick" is smaller and limper than your average man dick is quite the convincing argument they might believe. "Just like the regular ones, only less useful", wouldn't make the cut if you were selling pencils, let alone pencil dicks.

That aside, the very basis of women's oppression is that men believe they have an absolute right to use and control female bodies. Men have never respected women's boundaries and rape culture is a result.

Our lesbian sisters have an absolute right to choose who they have shake hands with, let alone who they have sex with.

I am horrified that anyone, but especially men, would suggest that choosing who you have sex with is anything but a personal choice. Any ethical human being would understand that and respect those boundaries. Arguing transphobia because lesbians won't sleep with them is just old-fashioned male entitlement.

"I'm not convinced that explaining your "lady dick" is smaller and limper than your average man dick is quite the convincing argument they might believe. "Just like the regular ones, only less useful", wouldn't make the cut if you were selling pencils, let alone pencil dicks"

ha ha so true

The cotton ceiling is appalling - definitely standing with lesbians on this one.

"You have no right to refuse to date someone who belongs to the gender(s) you are attracted to solely because of what's in their pants. This sort of exclusion is transphobic and invalidates our gender identities."

Well that just says it clear as a klaxon. Not even TRYING to hide the agenda there.

Newsflash. I'm allowed to refuse to date anyone for whatever reason I choose or no reason at all.

No right? Fuck off!

Me too.

What's it like to be LGBT in the UK today? That's the question on tomorrows You & Yours phone in - a Radio 4 consumer affairs show (12.15 - 13.00)

Can we get the Cotton ceiling talked about on this programme?

I think this is a warm up to the GRA consultation being launched this week. Basically, I think it will be the TRA show - a chance for the BBC to do some more GRA propaganda. I think that gender critical lesbian, gay and bi-sexual voices should get an airing.

They want submissions for tomorrows show. This is a brilliant programme - and they have some of the best producers working in the British media right now. Let's write in and tell them what we think.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qps9/contact

THREAD here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294770-Lets-call-Radio-4-and-tell-them-what-its-like-to-be-gender-critical-LGBT-person

You have no right to refuse to date someone....

OK you got that?! How can anyone sugar coat THAT?!

How is it different from corrective rape? Or any other type of pseudo conversion 'therapy'?
It is not different, in fact it is very similar but just wearing different clothes.

I think for some it is the age old male fetish that they want to boost their ego by sexually conquering a lesbian.

Another heterosexual woman standing with you on this one.
I am appalled how many people don't see this for what it is.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2018/06/30/a-message-to-terf-and-other-transphobes/#comments

I look at clips like this one, and struggle. Partly because no one would ever take someone like this seriously. And partly because people take someone like this seriously.

This is transgenderism.

This sort of exclusion is transphobic and invalidates our gender identities."

Why is it the responsibility of lesbians to validate gender identity with their bodies?

Another straight woman standing with lesbians. I have lesbian friends. I have a DD who may or may not be lesbian (she's only little!). I am revolted by this stuff and horrified that so many young women are being bullied.

Any person or ideology that seeks to break a person’s self defined boundaries relating to sexual activity is reprehensible.

Informed, enthusiastic consent, always.

This standard applies regardless of same sex/ opposite sex activity, but as there is a clearly targeted attack on the personal boundaries of homosexual women at this time I will happily centre them in our current discussions and activism.

Signed, another heterosexual woman standing in solidarity with her lesbian sisters.

If so many lesbians are happy with it why are they who are yet to be named still harping on about it.

@FlippinFumin

What do you mean 'still to be named'? Are you calling people who believe lesbians with penises are not lesbians at all a slur?

Do you think that non-lesbians should just turn away and not fight the [and I quote] 'horrible coercive abusive nasty rapey homophobic bullshit' that is facing younger lesbians these days?