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Original poster

WPUK Brighton Meeting: Turning the Tide

999 replies

PlonitbatPlonit · 29/06/2018 20:43

Tickets now available to hear Kathleen Stock, Helen Saxby, Gill Smith and Ruth Serwotka in Brighton on 16 July

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-turning-the-tide-tickets-47592125328

Helen Saxby's blog notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/

Article by Gill Smith www.transgendertrend.com/lesbian-detransitioner-must-question-primary-solution/

Kathleen Stock's blog medium.com/@kathleenstock

Article by Ruth Serwotka morningstaronline.co.uk/article/why-do-we-need-new-womens-movement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
BeUpStanding · 14/07/2018 23:38

I'm a Quaker, and whilst I understand why Brighton Quakers decided not to host the meeting, that doesn't stop me being disappointed.

Original poster
PlonitbatPlonit · 14/07/2018 23:44

NynaeveSedai How do you think the document came to be screenshot and provided to @Terfblocker? Surely that can only happen if MH badly misjudged how they circulated (i.e. released) this statement.

OP posts:
daimbars · 14/07/2018 23:48

I have experience with that venue and can assure you the are really choosy about who is allowed to hire out the rooms, I wouldn't take it personally. As it's Quakers they have certain rules.

I can probably dig out a rejection email from them for a children's pre loved sale.

Wanderabout · 14/07/2018 23:50

So someone leaked the statement to TERF blocker. Presumably a TRA or sympathiser at British Quakers as no reason WPUK would hand something to TERF blocker.

Suggests a very biased person keen to actively undermine WPUK was involved from the Quakers side if so.

Why would they bother releasing it though? Weird.

Wanderabout · 14/07/2018 23:51

They had already taken the booking daim. If you read the statement you can see the reasoning for cancelling and it wasn't about being retrospectively picky.

Wanderabout · 14/07/2018 23:52

There are no rules that Quakers have that would rule out a woman's group. What utter bollocks.

daimbars · 14/07/2018 23:58

Friends Meeting House take it really seriously making sure the groups abide by the rules - I had to jump through loads of hoops to hire it. It's not just like hiring a conference room at a hotel.

WPUK Brighton Meeting: Turning the Tide
daimbars · 15/07/2018 00:01

I don't think anyone can seriously say this meeting is about peace and equality which is what the Quakers are all about.

Original poster
PlonitbatPlonit · 15/07/2018 00:03

WPUK already had a booking having agreed to and fulfilled all the conditions. Nothing in the Quaker statement suggests otherwise.

This is WPUK's statement on the cancellation womansplaceuk.org/brighton-meeting/

OP posts:
Wanderabout · 15/07/2018 00:03

Yep a meeting where women want to meet to peacefully meet to discuss retaining their legal rights is clearly nothing to do with either peace or equality Hmm

daimbars · 15/07/2018 00:08

I'm sure if transgender people were invited to participate there would be no problem but as it's a one sided meeting it isn't about equality it's about one side trying to oppress the other.

I'm sure the same rules would apply if it was a TRA centred meeting.

Wanderabout · 15/07/2018 00:20

Again untrue. Trans people have spoken at WPUK meetings and they are open to all to attend.

Wanderabout · 15/07/2018 00:23

You can listen to lots of WPUK talks here:
womansplaceuk.org/film/

thebewilderness · 15/07/2018 00:23

oi oi daim!
Women's rights are not anti-trans.
Women talking about how laws will affect women is not transphobic.
Women are not obliged to talk about equal rights for their oppressors when they meet to discuss how to prevent any more of their rights from being undermined.

BeUpStanding · 15/07/2018 00:43

Quakers have four testimonies, or values, that underpin everything: Peace, Truth, Equality, and Simplicity.

This meeting is absolutely aligned with those ideals - even if it's no longer being hosted at a Quaker Meeting House.

busyboysmum · 15/07/2018 00:43

Daim please don't talk rubbish..

I've been to 2 WP meetings. Kristina Harrison was 1 of the 3 speakers at each meeting and she was excellent.

Gill Smith spoke at one - she was a trans man for some years before detransitioning.

Also a TW called Nell stood on stage and spoke at length at one of the meetings.

So you don't know what you are talking about.

BeUpStanding · 15/07/2018 00:49

Oi oi Daim! I know for a fact that the various organisers for these meetings are always trying to get people to speak in support of self-ID, and not a single trans rights activist has accepted one of the invitations extended to them.

ArcheryAnnie · 15/07/2018 01:30

Quakers have four testimonies, or values, that underpin everything: Peace, Truth, Equality, and Simplicity.

This meeting is absolutely aligned with those ideals - even if it's no longer being hosted at a Quaker Meeting House.

BeUpStanding is absolutely correct.

Peace - gender-crit feminists are not the ones threatening to burn down venues, or rape women with serrated dildoes. It's transactivists who do that. Gener-crit feminists are just asking to have a peaceful, respectful discussion.

Truth - gender-crit feminists are the ones who refuse to repeat the lie that it's possible to change sex.

Equality - gender-crit feminists believe that lesbians and gay men are entitled to have their same-sex orientation respected. It's transactivists who are telling lesbians they must learn to love dick.

NynaeveSedai · 15/07/2018 08:28

The quakers wrote the statement and it was saved somewhere on their system.
Someone who had access to that system took a screenshot and sent it to terfblocker.

The meeting house took the booking after extensive discussion with WPUK and their own committees. Then after pressure from TRA groups they changed their minds, 5 days before the meeting.

These meetings are open to trans people. Trans people have spoken at them - one of the speakers at this meeting is a woman who previously identified as trans.

Original poster
PlonitbatPlonit · 15/07/2018 09:42

Who has access to that system other than the quakers? Who knew the statement had been written and saved there other than the quakers? It's not just a random 'someone who had access to the system'. It's quakers who knew about the WPUK booking and cancellation, the statement that had been prepared about it, and where to find that statement on the MH computer network. It's not wrong to say this statement was released by quakers, even if it wasn't formally published.

OP posts:
NynaeveSedai · 15/07/2018 09:52

Well yes, I thought that was obvious.
It wasn't released deliberately by the quakers, it was screenshotted by someone who has access, presumably a Quaker, and leaked.

JackyHolyoake · 15/07/2018 10:11

Diambars "I'm sure if transgender people were invited to participate there would be no problem but as it's a one sided meeting it isn't about equality it's about one side trying to oppress the other. "

These meetings are not formal debates. They are about discussing the potential impacts of GRA reform and Self-ID on the rights of women and girls. They are about sharing information, discussing issues and exchanging views.

The meeting I organised in Birmingham had three speakers:

one spoke about the current challenge that is the appropriation of language;

another [a transitioned person] spoke about the experience of being transitioned in the current climate of the debate:

the third speaker, a Muslim woman, spoke about the impact that self-ID would have on the public lives of Muslim women.

The final hour of the meeting was given over to the audience to raise questions to the panel of speakers.

You can listen to the speeches from Woman's Place meetings here:

www.youtube.com/channel/UCzFqsUqDzyXEQMJVy42NwUw/videos

NotTerfNorCis · 15/07/2018 10:27

I'm sure the same rules would apply if it was a TRA centred meeting.

Of course TRAs would be happy to invite gender critical feminists, and feminists would kick up a storm if they didn't... sure. In a parallel universe.

ArcheryAnnie · 15/07/2018 10:36

I'm sure the same rules would apply if it was a TRA centred meeting.

Sadly this isn't true, if you look at the various Quaker study centres. TRAs have been invited to speak unchallenged, with no "balance", despite there not being an agreed Quaker position on gender identity v biological sex (I've checked).

The rule for every organisation and every venue seems to be TRAs get to speak everywhere. Women, on the other hand, have to hide in the shadows if they don't want to be attacked in the street, and even then they get silenced by the very people who should be championing their rights.

daimbars · 15/07/2018 10:36

Of course a trans panellist would not be welcome unless they were a de-transitioner

The whole point of the meeting seems to be painting trans ideology in a negative light and discussing the impact it has on women and girls. This is not fair and balanced as it's only one side of the debate.

I am sure plenty of liberal feminists and trans people delighted with their transition would be willing to speak about how trans ideology has enriched their lives but these speakers are not invited - hence the imbalance.