Great piece by academic Kathleen Stock (mentions MN)

[Ereshkigal]

medium.com/@kathleenstock/when-bindels-speak-b305625a7521

So so good.

Dr Adrian Harrop's response

threads
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3244781-dr-adrian-harrop-who-the-funk-does-he-think-he-is

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3248676-dr-adrian-harrop-dr-misogyny-is-pursuing-another-woman

Pink News article:

(extract)
"A trans rights campaigner. (Getty)Stock is set to speak at the A Woman’s Place Is Turning The Tide event this month, which is being hosted by the contentious Woman’s Place UK.

The group opposes the government’s proposed reform of the 2004 Gender Recognition Act, for which the consultation launched this week"

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/06/university-lecturer-says-trans-women-are-still-males-with-male-genitalia/

“Men are welcome in the outside area but women have to take their tops off, just put one layer back on and walk through that small waiting room to go through for their scan,” she told The Independent.

No way would I want random men there. Stupid selfish man.

What did he say? 'Dated, sexist and disgusting'. Yeah. Classic little DARVO.

Article in the Economist (part of its series Transgender Identities) :

'There are more things to consider than some trans activists would have you believe, argues Kathleen Stock, an academic

Open Future
Jul 6th 2018
'Kathleen Stock is a Reader in Philosophy at the University of Sussex. She writes on the philosophy of fiction, and on issues in feminist philosophy. Her current research project focuses on conflicts of interests between trans women and natal women, and how to resolve them. Here, she examines arguments against expanding the concept of “trans women” to include anyone self-identifying as such.'

(extract)
One problem is that, since “woman” and “female” are interchangeable in many people’s minds, we’re likely to lose a secure understanding of the related concept “female”. (Indeed, some activists advocate stretching this concept to include trans women, too.) Yet the existing concept is in good order. It designates a person with XX chromosomes, and for whom ovaries, womb, vagina and so on are a statistical norm, even if some females are born without some of these, or lose one or more later. That intersex people exist doesn’t seriously threaten this category, since most categories have statistical outliers.

Nor does the existence of males born with none of these features, who then take hormones or undergo surgery to gain some such features artificially. Maintaining the concept “female” as it is is crucial to an understanding of a particular kind of lived physical experience, already significantly under-investigated in relation to other medical and academic specialties. To put it bluntly: if we were to lose this concept, and with it the concept “male”, we would have to reinvent them.

The category “female” is also important for understanding the particular challenges its members face, as such. These include a heightened vulnerability to rape, sexual assault, voyeurism and exhibitionism; to sexual harassment; to domestic violence; to certain cancers; to anorexia and self-harm; and so on. If self-declared trans women are included in statistics, understanding will be hampered. A male’s self-identification into the category of “female” or “women” doesn’t automatically bring on susceptibility to these harms; nor does a female’s self-identification out of those categories lessen it. In a sexist world which often disadvantages females, as such, we need good data. We need good data about trans people too, of course, but the two tasks should be separated" (continues)

www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/06/changing-the-concept-of-woman-will-cause-unintended-harms?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/changingtheconceptofwomanwillcauseunintendedharmsopenfuture

'Dated, sexist and disgusting?' - I agree.

A man demanding to be allowed into an area where women go for medical procedue and may be half dressed/scared/worried/feeling vulnerable because HE wants is exacty that.

Bbbbut, he had to stand in a COLD CORRIDOR!

I was just reminding myself of what a monumental sexist prick he was/is on Twitter.

Yes, I was pretty shocked at how pummelled I got at my first mammogram, they even had to go get an extra attachment for the machine to squash me further (I’m on the early screening programme).

Wouldn’t have fancied stumbling shell-shocked into a waiting area still doing up my shirt poppers and straight into a chap.

Kathleen Stock is quoted in an article in today's Times:

"Transgender muffin exercise ‘sends wrong message’"

(extract)
The “mixed-muffin gender berry challenge” is one of a number of exercises included in Agenda, a free online toolkit distributed to more than 1,400 young people across Wales.

Its author, Emma Renold, professor of childhood studies at Cardiff University, has received a £10,000 award for her work, including the Agenda guide, which aims to teach young people about healthy relationships and raise awareness of sexual violence and discrimination.

Critics have warned that the toolkit’s guide to transgender identity does more harm than good.

The exercise distributes muffins around a group. Those whose cakes have blueberries inside are asked to stand by blue balloons, representing the stereotype of masculinity in one corner of the room. Those with raspberry muffins are asked to stand by pink balloons, representing the stereotype of femininity, in another corner. Those with mixed muffins found that they had no place to stand. “After this activity, we asked how they felt being categorised according to a muffin they did not choose, what it felt like to go to a gender-coded corner that they might not identify with, and what it felt like not to have a corner at all,” the guide said.

“This got us all talking about how we come into the world already coded through gender labels; how you can’t assume someone’s gender by how they look: what it feels like to be given a gender you might not choose; and not to have your gender represented at all.”

Critics have accused the guide of falsely presenting transgender and non-binary identities as the only alternative for people who do not fit sexist stereotypes.

Kathleen Stock from the University of Sussex, who is working on the conflict of rights in the transgender debate, said the “confused and contradictory” exercise “read a bit like satire.”

She said: “The materials are troubling because they effectively encourage young people, and particularly gender non-conforming girls and young lesbians, to conclude that their distressing feelings aren’t just a sign that the world is sexist, but rather a sign that they themselves need fixing.” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-muffin-exercise-sends-wrong-message-gs7z0zgcz?shareToken=ea2ec30452154fd415bc89a9716f49e1

She said: “The materials are troubling because they effectively encourage young people, and particularly gender non-conforming girls and young lesbians, to conclude that their distressing feelings aren’t just a sign that the world is sexist, but rather a sign that they themselves need fixing.

Isn't that the agenda captured neatly? That any emotional pain and /or somatic distress is Darvo'd back onto the female as their problem/fault.

Really plays into the hands of Big Pharm and also obfuscates the male violence that underlies so much of that distress.

Yesterday,Woman's Hour discussed adult bullying (with reference to social media) and asked listeners to email examples.

Its worth listening to, link below to catch up.

The expert in the segment was from Ditch the Label.
CEO of Ditch the Label is Liam Hackett.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3299191-A-new-member-of-the-Leftie-Misogynists-club?

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bf4c3p

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3334491-Womans-Hour-discusses-adult-bullying-with-representative-from-Ditch-The-Label-providing-expert-advice

Laim Hackett's claim he received 'thousands of abusive texts from [Kathleen Stock's] community of terfs' after calling out her transphobia led to his new T shirt range:

twitter.com/DiageoLiam/status/1024610634116341760

I'd like to see those thousands of messages he alleges.